Idea for return of Motorail?

[popeter45]

so with desire to cut personal emissions people are increasingly looking to travel by train but there are times at present thats simple not possible because you need your car the other end (e.g. camper van/caravan holidays, areas with few/no public transport options like the scottish highlands or need for a specialise car for wheelchair use)

i wonder if something like motorail could work but probably not in the old fashion of also carrying the passenger in the same train

my Proposal is similar to SNCF used to do with people drop off there car at a Terminal, catch a standard Intercity service then pick up there car the other end after a overnight car only motorail Freight train that could reconfigure at point to optimise routes like one train that leaves London for Crewe, reforms with another from Bristol/Swansea/Birmingham to form one train to North Wales/the North West and another to Edinburgh and Inverses

using dedicated terminals not at stations would prob be best as so many stations have lost monorail capabilities but have fright yards nearby that could be converted for motorail use

 

[The Planner]

Is this an overnight passenger thing or something else? Surely you are going to drop your motor off, get on a fast inter-city train then wait for god knows how long at the other end for your car? What do you do in the mean time?

 

[popeter45]

Is this an overnight passenger thing or something else? Surely you are going to drop your motor off, get on a fast inter-city train then wait for god knows how long at the other end for your car? What do you do in the mean time?

well if they arrived early in the morning could arrive as a passenger in the evening, stay in a hotel nearby then pick up in the morning
other option is drop off the day before to pick up when you arrive

 

[JonathanH]

This is incredibly niche. Hiring a car or relying on public transport at the destination is usually feasible and likely to be cheaper than the transportation cost of a car via a motorrail option.

Anywhere that could hope to be a terminal for motorrail would already support a car hire firm.

 

[alistairlees]

Motorail briefly worked in the 1970s because the roads were crap, there were almost no motorways, and cars were very unreliable. All that’s changed. As a result, motorail will never again work with the distances we have in this country. I doubt it was profitable in the 1970s anyway.

 

[65477]

This topic occurs at intervals see

Motorail

Do posters think that with ever more congested motorways that a motorail service could be reintroduced as a viable economic service? Where might services start and end? Could the infrastructure logistics work? I'd be very tempted to avoid the M1 or M6 to Scotland if I could take my car by rail.

www.railforums.co.uk

Which itself references an earlier thread

 

[edwin_m]

When routes like the WCML are very busy with freight, I don't see that we should be dedicating paths to this sort of traffic. Car hire from the destination station is another option for those who need it - I believe all the providers will meet someone at a station if necessary. You may say people can put all their luggage in the car, but if they had to stay in a hotel while waiting for the car to arrive then they would need much of their luggage then anyway.

Most motorhomes are too tall to go on a standard flat wagon in any case.

 

[30907]

The French model was fine for going to your relatives in southern France, or your apartment on the Cote d'Azur. We used it with an overnight hotel in Paris which wasn't too inconvenient (you only need hand luggage!). But it was a lossmaker - I looked at the prices for their back-of-a-car-transporter variant and they were much higher.
The Austrian/Czech models work with spare capacity on night trains (significantly, Duesseldorf will be dropped when the Amsterdam service starts) and DDm transporters that aren't life-expired. It will be interesting to see whether the business case for replacing the latter can be made in a few years....

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be a lot cheaper and easier to do a deal with a car hire company and allow you to book a car, to be delivered to the station at the booked time of arrival, as part of your booking of a train ticket.

 

[HSTEd]

You won't make Motorrail work without a loading gauge the size of the one on the Channel Tunnel.

You just can't fit enough vehicles into the linear length available.

Now, whilst I personally favour the construction of a rail system wtih a loading gauge even larger than Channel Tunnel..... I dont think it will actually happen. (Channel Tunnel Gauge with about a foot of extra vertical clearance, for double stacks)

 

[SynthD]

Could it be international only, with a station at the Tunnel freight terminal in Dagenham?

Depends on how far into Kent and London the Shuttle trains can go. I suspect no further than their current use.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I would prefer car hire places right outside very key railway stations rather than motorail. A bit like they exist right next to virtually all US airports.

 

[xotGD]

I would prefer car hire places right outside very key railway stations rather than motorail. But like they exist right next to virtually all US airports.

I don't think that the demand is there for dedicated car hire facilities. On the odd occasion I've needed a hire car at my destination I've arranged for it to be dropped off at my hotel.

 

[RT4038]

so with desire to cut personal emissions people are increasingly looking to travel by train but there are times at present thats simple not possible because you need your car the other end (e.g. camper van/caravan holidays, areas with few/no public transport options like the scottish highlands or need for a specialise car for wheelchair use)

i wonder if something like motorail could work but probably not in the old fashion of also carrying the passenger in the same train

my Proposal is similar to SNCF used to do with people drop off there car at a Terminal, catch a standard Intercity service then pick up there car the other end after a overnight car only motorail Freight train that could reconfigure at point to optimise routes like one train that leaves London for Crewe, reforms with another from Bristol/Swansea/Birmingham to form one train to North Wales/the North West and another to Edinburgh and Inverses

using dedicated terminals not at stations would prob be best as so many stations have lost monorail capabilities but have fright yards nearby that could be converted for motorail use

If the dedicated terminal was not at the station where the standard Inter-City service departed/arrived, how would the car driver travel between the two? Wouldn't providing this transport jack up the cost and therefore the price?
What freight train would these car carrying wagons travel with? As there is fairly little freight conveyed from freight yard to freight yard domestically, this really seems a little impractical, unless there may be sufficient cars to be moved that they could make up a whole train.

 

[furnessvale]

Could it be international only, with a station at the Tunnel freight terminal in Dagenham?

Depends on how far into Kent and London the Shuttle trains can go. I suspect no further than their current use.

The shuttle trains can go no further into France than they can in the UK. Continental gauge is not that big!

 

[37424]

First Question would be is it likely to be profitable? I suspect the answer to that would be No, at which point you don't really need to go any further as its not an essential service.

As for the emissions argument's given that Electric and Hybrid Cars will be coming thick and fast in the next few years it's not really a convincing argument.

 

[mmh]

well if they arrived early in the morning could arrive as a passenger in the evening, stay in a hotel nearby then pick up in the morning
other option is drop off the day before to pick up when you arrive

So drive to the motorail terminal, leave your car and keys, get a taxi back home, to later get a taxi to the station to get a train to your destination, optionally more taxis to pick your car up, and the same on the way home?

I think this one would be a difficult sale!

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I would prefer car hire places right outside very key railway stations rather than motorail. A bit like they exist right next to virtually all US airports.

Car hire companies will deliver a car to a railway station for you and pick up from there. That's providing the station has parking nearby, which most do. I've done it many times

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Motor rail unlikely to make a comeback then

 

[London Trains]

I'm not sure anything domestic would work but how about an extension of Eurotunnel down HS1 to Purfleet, where it will branch off, loop round the west side of Aveley, and have a terminal next to the M25, with a new freeflow junction straight from the M25 into the terminal. It would drastically shorten the drive and would make the journey for anyone north of the Thames going to Europe by car much faster.

 

[Journeyman]

Motorail briefly worked in the 1970s because the roads were crap, there were almost no motorways, and cars were very unreliable. All that’s changed. As a result, motorail will never again work with the distances we have in this country. I doubt it was profitable in the 1970s anyway.

Most cars are also much bigger now, so I do wonder if that would start to create loading gauge issues for things like the bigger estates and SUVs.

 

[edwin_m]

I'm not sure anything domestic would work but how about an extension of Eurotunnel down HS1 to Purfleet, where it will branch off, loop round the west side of Aveley, and have a terminal next to the M25, with a new freeflow junction straight from the M25 into the terminal. It would drastically shorten the drive and would make the journey for anyone north of the Thames going to Europe by car much faster.

As someone pointed out above, HS1 is conventional European loading gauge but the Shuttles are much larger so they can't go beyond the existing terminals. It would also be impossible to fit a relatively slow Shuttle in between the Eurostars and Javelins, except maybe at night.

 

[route101]

Edinburgh Waverley car hire booth was busy last year when i walked past. Any other in station car hire places?

 

[S-Car-Go]

With the advent of electric cars requiring multiple charges to get from...say, London - Scotland, it would be quicker to Motorail them. But people travelling for business will always do car hire which is quicker more convenient. Expenses can be claimed. And the "fuel" cost in an electric car would be cheap anyway if it's for a leisure trip.

 

[mmh]

Most cars are also much bigger now, so I do wonder if that would start to create loading gauge issues for things like the bigger estates and SUVs.

No. The average car is wider than in the days of motorail, but not as wide as a train. Anyone who's ever seen a train on a low loader or wondered why their car doesn't have four seats and an aisle knows that.

 

[furnessvale]

No. The average car is wider than in the days of motorail, but not as wide as a train. Anyone who's ever seen a train on a low loader or wondered why their car doesn't have four seats and an aisle knows that.

I think the reference is to height, not width, which can preclude the use of double deck car carriers, especially within UK loading gauge.

 

[Non Multi]

New Ford vehicles being transported by rail at Didcot, 2015:

 

[Journeyman]

I think the reference is to height, not width, which can preclude the use of double deck car carriers, especially within UK loading gauge.

Yes. Even back in Motorail's heyday, people weren't happy about cars being on open wagons, but your average car now is going to be trickier to fit in an enclosed vehicle.

 

[Non Multi]

More Fords, some in semi-enclosed wagons, hauled through Reading in 2010:

 

[alistairlees]

GB loading gauge is (I think) 2820mm wide in the body. Deduct 100mm each side for body thickness, that leaves 2620mm. A Tesla Model S (to take a wide car) is 1999mm wide. That leaves 621mm; 310mm, or just over a foot, on each side. That wouldn’t be enough to open the doors and get out easily. And there would be a high risk of it being scratched.

To have 600mm each side, a car would need to be 1420mm wide. No modern car is that narrow (though a classic mini from the 1960s is even narrower); a modern mini is 1727mm wide.