Idea for Chester Northgate Underground Station

[ccityplanner12]

There is a planned new shopping precinct inside Chester Northgate, & it's Huge. It shouldn't be called Northgate as in reality parts of it are closer to Watergate. Anyway, I had an idea for a station at Chester Northgate:
1. Reconfigure the tracks like this (if they aren't already):
→ Up Local →
⇒ Up Express ⇒
⇐ Down Express ⇐
← Down Local ←

2. Remove the local tracks & use the gaps created to build temporary structural aids to prop the tunnel up.
3. Remove the north side of the eastbound tunnel & the south side of the westbound tunnel.
4. Build platforms in the gaps & remove the temporary supports.
5. Connect them to the existing roundabout subway.

This would make a local station to better serve the city centre. The trains actually pass for a short section inside the city walls, but all stop far away.
The new station would have an underground concourse & would have an entrance into the existing subway.

Alternatives to this idea could include a station at Chester Watergate (behind Holiday Inn Express).

Some complex lift-related stuff that I have not included in my post as it is rather difficult to understand:

 

[185]

Chester Council are the antichrist of public transport for 20 years now.

Not content with flogging the bus station (2001) for trendy buy to let investor posh flats, they now want to do the same with the bus exchange.

New bus stops (2 each way) on St. Martin’s Way

Lol. So the entire 15-stand bus exchange replaced by 4 bus stops. Further away. Each side of a stinky gridlocked dual carriageway.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Lol. So the entire 15-stand bus exchange replaced by 4 bus stops. Further away. Each side of a stinky gridlocked dual carriageway.

The bus station, is being moved to near the station (on the old Gorse Stacks car park). The new bus stops are just there for those people who are specifically going to that part of town.

 

[Bevan Price]

There is a planned new shopping precinct inside Chester Northgate, & it's Huge. It shouldn't be called Northgate as in reality parts of it are closer to Watergate. Anyway, I had an idea for a station at Chester Northgate:
1. Reconfigure the tracks like this (if they aren't already):
→ Up Local →
⇒ Up Express ⇒
⇐ Down Express ⇐
← Down Local ←

2. Remove the local tracks & use the gaps created to build temporary structural aids to prop the tunnel up.
3. Remove the north side of the eastbound tunnel & the south side of the westbound tunnel.
4. Build platforms in the gaps & remove the temporary supports.
5. Connect them to the existing roundabout subway.

This would make a local station to better serve the city centre. The trains actually pass for a short section inside the city walls, but all stop far away.

The new station would have an underground concourse & would have an entrance into the existing subway.
:

That last bit sounds grim - rather like a miniature Birmingham New St. And whilst it might be marginally more convenient for the Cathedral area and racecourse, I don't think it would benefit some of the main shopping streets or river area.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

If they aren't considering links to airports (Liverpool) or large retail outlets (Trafford Centre) that require relatively little in the way of infrastructure the chances of a major reconstruction, re-alignment and underground station in a moderate sized town are pretty much non-existent.

 

[daveo]

Costs???

 

[AlterEgo]

Costs???

You're definitely new here.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

To use an American expression " I do have skin in the game here" I was born in Chester City Hospital in 1957. I have fond memories of my father getting the train from upton by Chester to capenhurst and am due to make a pilgrimage to Chester soon. I will thus keep an eye on this thread and any potential Crewe to Chester and North Wales electrification. All is possible many things are desirable but I did not realize Chester CC was so anti public transport. Cost is always an issue .

 

[Old Yard Dog]

It is difficult to imagine a more pedestrian hostile location for the new Chester bus station than the chosen site at Gorse Stacks. It is separated from the city centre by a canal and a 100 foot high wall. It is also miles from the city's best pubs on Lower Bridge Street.

Cheshire West & Chester council has been kowtowing to the demands of property developers for decades and the recent change from Con to Lab has done little to redress the balance.

And just to confuse passengers, Chester has three regular services designated as route number 1, going to Wrexham, Liverpool and Blacon.

 

[6Gman]

The bus station, is being moved to near the station (on the old Gorse Stacks car park). The new bus stops are just there for those people who are specifically going to that part of town.

Well, it depends what you mean by near!

I certainly wouldn't call it near.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That last bit sounds grim - rather like a miniature Birmingham New St.

The main problem with which is filthy DMUs - and only one of the lines into Chester is electrified.

 

[MarkyT]

Well, it depends what you mean by near!

I certainly wouldn't call it near.

Nearer to the rail station than the Bus Exchange, and the site is a bit more central for the the main shopping areas, so a reasonable compromise really. A good next step would be to improve the pedestrian friendliness of the walking route between the bus and rail stations via Brook Street and hence the access from rail to the city centre, making pavements wider etc, with nicer surfaces and street furniture etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I had an idea for a station at Chester Northgate: . . . The trains actually pass for a short section inside the city walls, but all stop far away. The new station would have an underground concourse & would have an entrance into the existing subway.

Alternatives to this idea could include a station at Chester Watergate (behind Holiday Inn Express).

The second idea would be better, certainly much easier to construct and more pleasant for passengers than platforms partially underground. It would be convenient for the racecourse. Staggered 100m long platforms would probably fit on the existing viaduct/embankments as shown on attached (yellow). A signal on the up line would ideally be moved forward clear of the platform, but otherwise no other major infrastructure changes would be required. I've shown a new walkway within the railway boundary alongside the school playing field to provide better access the city wall and canalside areas.

 

[6Gman]

Nearer to the rail station than the Bus Exchange, and the site is a bit more central for the the main shopping areas, so a reasonable compromise really. A good next step would be to improve the pedestrian friendliness of the walking route between the bus and rail stations via Brook Street and hence the access from rail to the city centre, making pavements wider etc, with nicer surfaces and street furniture etc.

The Bus Exchange is literally across the road from the market, backs onto the Library and the Town Hall, and a short walk from the Cross (the centre of Chester). The Gorse Stacks bus station is outside the City Walls and the wrong side of the canal!

It is closer to the railway station but a fair (and not very appealing) walk. And I suspect far more people take the bus into Chester for work and shopping rather than to catch trains. As evidence I offer the buses to Wrexham and Mold which start from the railway station (usually with around 4-6 passengers on board) but then pick up in Foregate Street by the shops where 20+ usually board!

 

[Bevan Price]

The main problem with which is filthy DMUs - and only one of the lines into Chester is electrified.

I agree that DMUs do not help, but the worst feature of stations like Birmingham New St., Sunderland, and much of Manchester Victoria is that the platform areas are dismal, dingy holes....

 

[MarkyT]

The Bus Exchange is literally across the road from the market, backs onto the Library and the Town Hall, and a short walk from the Cross (the centre of Chester). The Gorse Stacks bus station is outside the City Walls and the wrong side of the canal!

I suppose wherever it is it will be more convenient for some people and not so for others, but presumably most buses also call at other stops around the city on their way in and out. I did suggest improving the connecting route via Brook St. for pedestrians, which would also improve access from the main station to parts of the city centre.

It is closer to the railway station but a fair (and not very appealing) walk. And I suspect far more people take the bus into Chester for work and shopping rather than to catch trains. As evidence I offer the buses to Wrexham and Mold which start from the railway station (usually with around 4-6 passengers on board) but then pick up in Foregate Street by the shops where 20+ usually board!

There isn't much of a local rail service surrounding Chester except on the N Wales coast and Merseyrail lines so I suspect you're absolutely right with respect to the majority of shorter trips for which bus or car are the only alternatives. A Racecourse/city wall station could be quite attractive for people coming in from Wales and requiring that side of the city centre.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

To get to Gorse Stacks from the Town Hall, you need to walk through the cobbled streets of the cathedral grounds, horrible underfoot, and then cut through the gate in the city wall which says it closes at 9 pm but never does.

I'm sure the clergy will love drunks staggering through late at night to catch their last buses home, stopping off for a jimmy riddle as the aforementioned council has closed all the public toilets.

 

[southern442]

I agree that DMUs do not help, but the worst feature of stations like Birmingham New St., Sunderland, and much of Manchester Victoria is that the platform areas are dismal, dingy holes....

It could work if it was done well, like the ones on the Jubilee Line extension. They would be brilliant for National Rail as the underground stations that National Rail have are very dingy indeed (for the most part)

 

[jamesbwxm]

To get to Gorse Stacks from the Town Hall, you need to walk through the cobbled streets of the cathedral grounds, horrible underfoot, and then cut through the gate in the city wall which says it closes at 9 pm but never does.

Or use my normal route of going down George Street. And I assure you that When I did use the Cathedral shortcut via the Kaleyards I found that gate shut many times at night.

 

[All Line Rover]

I don't believe there to be anything wrong with the location of the new bus station. It is a five minute walk from the high street and the roads between the bus station and the high street appear to be being remodelled.

As for proposals for a new railway station, the area most desperately in need of a station is Watergate, not Northgate. Northgate, like Foregate Street, is within a (reasonable) walking distance of the main railway station. Watergate, on the other hand, where both Chester Racecourse and a large retail park are located, is on the opposite side of town from the main railway station and the roads are abysmal. When the races are on the entire road network grinds to a halt, which is most depressing when the railway line runs alongside the racecourse!

 

[catfordbags]

Not that any of this will happen but the two most obvious station developments for Chester would be to re open Saltney or build a new parkway station on the Wrexham line by the existing park and ride and to serve the business park....