Idea: CrossCountry overhaul

[JonathanH]

Build a pair of new 9-Coach Platforms at Berwick?

Berwick is a bit far to go just for a reversal, especially with 9-coach trains. Platforms on the loop at Gateshead would perhaps be better.

 

[FGWHST43009]

Berwick is a bit far to go just for a reversal, especially with 9-coach trains. Platforms on the loop at Gateshead would perhaps be better.

I agree, also if you're continuing to Berwick you might as well just carry on to Edinburgh. Could extend to Sunderland instead although I personally wouldn't do that

 

[freetoview33]

Lets face it, the current CrossCountry network is no longer fit for purpose and needs a major overhual! This is the third incarnation of my CrossCountry plan as certain things have changed in the real world since my last post in 2022 and to add in more explination than before.

I propose an hourly service on each of the 10 below routes, which provides a half hourly service to the majority of the network, some of the routes might first come across as radical but I believe that is what is needed to finaly fix the network and make it useable, explinations are given. I propose a minimum of new 7 car bimode 125mph capable rolling stock as a minimum.

Also I am aware of other TOC's services I have changed but there are plans to fits those in.

Service 1: Liverpool Lime Street - Birmingham New Street - Cambridge
Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Rugby Parkway - Northampton - Bedford - Tempsford - Cambridge

Liverpool Lime Street - Birmingham New Street
• Replacing one of the two an hour London Northwestern Railway services between Birmingham New Street and Liverpool Lime Street but with fewer stops.
• A new hourly Northern stopping service introduced between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street.
• Additional stops on existing services at Cosely and Penkridge.

Birmingham New Street - Cambridge
• Replacing the current Birmingham New Street - Leicester - Peterborough - Cambridge - Stansted Airport service.
• A new hourly stopping service from Birmingham Moor Street to Corby (Via Leicester).
• A new hourly stopping service from Birmingham Moor Street to Peterborough (Via Leicester).
• Extend the current East Midlands Railway service from Doncaster/Lincoln to Peterborough to Stansted Airport.
• Providing an additional service between Birmingham New Street and Rugby and reinstating direct services to Liverpool Lime Street.
• Providing a new rail link from Northampton to Bedford.
• Maintaining a direct Birmingham New Street to Cambridge service via East West rail.
• Cambridge for links to Stanstead, Norwich and Ipswich.

Service 2: Liverpool Lime Street - Birmingham New Street - Southampton Central - Bournemouth
Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Solihull - Warwick Parkway - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Didcot Parkway - Newbury - Whitchurch - Winchester - Southampton Airport - Southampton Central - Brockenhurst - Christchurch - Bournemouth

Liverpool Lime Street - Birmingham New Street
• Replacing one of the two an hour London Northwestern Railway services between Birmingham New Street and Liverpool Lime Street but with fewer stops.
• A new hourly Northern stopping service introduced between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street.
• Additional stops on existing services at Cosely and Penkridge.

Birmingham New Street - Southampton Central - Bournemouth
• Two hourly extension from Southampton Central to Bournemouth.
• Replacing the Birmingham New Street to Southampton and Bournemouth section of the Manchester Piccadilly to Bournemouth service.
• Providing a new rail link between Didcot Parkway to Winchester, this also provides much needed frieght capacity on the Southampton - Midlands corridor, avoiding capacity issues around Reading.
• Extend one the current Basingstoke to Reading services to Oxford (to maintain links).
• Extend one the current Basingstoke to Reading services to London Paddington.

Service 3: Manchester Piccadilly - Birmingham New Street - Gatwick Airport
Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Sandwell & Dudley - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Didcot Parkway - Reading - Wokingham - Farnborough - Guildford - Dorking - Gatwick Airport

Manchester Piccadilly - Birmingham New Street
• Replacing the Manchester Piccadilly to Reading section of the Manchester Piccadilly to Bournemouth service.

Birmingham New Street - Gatwick Airport
• Replacing the Manchester Piccadilly to Reading section of the Manchester Piccadilly to Bournemouth service.
• Replacing the former Virgin CrossCountry service to Gatwick Airport and mirroring part of the proposed Grand Central route from Reading to Gatwick Airport.
• Capacity improvements would have to be made on the North Downs line to accomadate the additional services.

Service 4: Manchester Piccadilly - Birmingham New Street - Exeter St Davids - Paignton
Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Sandwell & Dudley - Birmingham New Street - - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway - Exeter St Davids - Dawlish - Newton Abbot - Torquay - Paignton

Manchester Piccadilly - Birmingham New Street
• Replacing the current CrossCountry service from Manchester Piccadilly to Bristol Temple Meads.

Birmingham New Street - Exeter St Davids - Paignton
• Replacing the current CrossCountry service from Manchester Piccadilly to Bristol Temple Meads.
• Two hourly extension from Exeter St Davids to Paignton.
• Services extended from Bristol Temple Meads to Exeter St Davids as has been previously planned.
• More services to call at Paignton, an expansion of the current services on this route.

Service 5: Harrogate - Leeds - Birmingham New Street - Cardiff Central
Harrogate - Leeds Bradford Airport - Leeds - Wakefield Westgate - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Lichfield Trent Valley - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Gloucester - Newport - Cardiff Parkway - Cardiff Central

Harrogate - Leeds - Birmingham New Street
• Two hourly extension from Leeds to Harrogate.
• Introduce an hourly Birmingham Moor Street to Derby service.
• Replacing the Leeds to Birmingham New Street section of the Edinburgh to Plymouth service.
• Services onwards to York, Newcastle and Scotland provided by TransPennine Express.
• TransPennine Express Liverpool Lime Street to Newcastle Central services to be extended back to Edinburgh.

Birmingham New Street - Cardiff Central
• Replacing the current Birmingham New Street to Cardiff Central service.
• A new hourly service from Birmingham Moor Street to Gloucester to compliment the planned hourly Birmingham Moor Street to Hereford service.

Service 6: Harrogate - Leeds - Birmingham New Street - Cambridge
Harrogate - Leeds Bradford Airport - Leeds - Wakefield Westgate - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Lichfield Trent Valley - Birmingham New Street - - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Rugby Parkway - Northampton - Bedford - Tempsford - Cambridge

Harrogate - Leeds - Birmingham New Street
• Two hourly extension from Leeds to Harrogate.
• Introduce an hourly Birmingham Moor Street to Derby service.
• Reintroducing a second hourly service from Birmingham New Street to Leeds.
• Services onwards to York, Newcastle and Scotland provided by TransPennine Express.
• TransPennine Express Liverpool Lime Street to Newcastle Central services to be extended back to Edinburgh.

Birmingham New Street - Cambridge
• Replacing the current Birmingham New Street - Leicester - Peterborough - Cambridge - Stansted Airport service.
• A new hourly stopping service from Birmingham Moor Street to Corby (Via Leicester).
• A new hourly stopping service from Birmingham Moor Street to Peterborough (Via Leicester).
• Extend the current East Midlands Railway service from Doncaster/Lincoln to Peterborough to Stansted Airport.
• Providing an additional service between Birmingham New Street and Rugby and reinstating direct services to Liverpool Lime Street.
• Providing a new rail link from Northampton to Bedford.
• Maintaining a direct Birmingham New Street to Cambridge service via East West rail.
• Cambridge for links to Stanstead, Norwich and Ipswich.

Service 7: Newcastle Central - Birmingham New Street - Exeter St Davids - Plymouth
Newcastle Central - Durham - Darlington - York - Doncaster - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway - Exeter St Davids - Dawlish - Newton Abbot - Totnes - Ivybridge - Plymouth

Newcastle Central - Birmingham New Street
• Replacing the Newcastle Central to Exeter St Davids section of the Edinburgh to Plymouth service.
• Introduce an hourly Birmingham Moor Street to Derby service.
• Avanti services are faster and cheaper between Birmingham New Steet and Edinburgh.
• Introduce a second Avanti service per hour from Birmingham New Street to Scotland.
• Allows the TransPennine Express Liverpool Lime Street to Newcastle Central services to be extended back to Edinburgh.
• Services between Newcastle Central and Scotland provided by LNER, Transpennie Express and Lumo.

Birmingham New Street - Exeter St Davids - Plymouth
• Two hourly extension from Exeter St Davids to Plymouth.
• Replacing the Newcastle Central to Exeter St Davids section of the Edinburgh to Plymouth service.

Service 8: Newcastle Central - Birmingham New Street - Southampton Central - Bournemouth
Newcastle Central - Durham - Darlington - York - Doncaster - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Birmingham New Street - Solihull - Warwick Parkway - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Didcot Parkway - Newbury - Whitchurch - Winchester - Southampton Airport - Southampton Central - Brockenhurst - Christchurch - Bournemouth

Newcastle Central - Birmingham New Street
• Reintroducing a second hourly service from Newcastle Central and Birmingham New Street.
• Introduce an hourly Birmingham Moor Street to Derby service.
• Avanti services are faster and cheaper between Birmingham New Steet and Edinburgh.
• Introduce a second Avanti service per hour from Birmingham New Street to Scotland.
• Allows the TransPennine Express Liverpool Lime Street to Newcastle Central services to be extended back to Edinburgh.
• Services between Newcastle Central and Scotland provided by LNER, Transpennie Express and Lumo.

Birmingham New Street - Southampton Central - Bournemouth
• Two hourly extension from Southampton Central to Bournemouth.
• Replacing the Birmingham New Street to Southampton and Bournemouth section of the Manchester Piccadilly to Bournemouth service.
• Providing a new rail link between Didcot Parkway to Winchester, this also provides much needed frieght capacity on the Southampton - Midlands corridor, avoiding capacity issues around Reading.
• Extend one the current Basingstoke to Reading services to Oxford (to maintain links).
• Extend one the current Basingstoke to Reading services to London Paddington.

Service 9: Lincoln - Birmingham New Street - Cardiff Central
Lincoln - Newark Castle - Nottingham - Castle Donington - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Gloucester - Newport - Cardiff Parkway - Cardiff Central

Lincoln - Birmingham New Street
• Replacing the current Nottingham to Cardiff Central service.
• Introduce an hourly Birmingham Moor Street to Derby service.
• The flat crossing at Newark would finally need to be replaced.

Birmingham New Street - Cardiff Central
• Providing an additional hourly service from Birmingham New Street to Cardiff Central.
• A new hourly service from Birmingham Moor Street to Gloucester to compliment the planned hourly Birmingham Moor Street to Hereford service.

Service 10: Lincoln - Birmingham New Street - Gatwick Airport
Lincoln - Newark Castle - Nottingham - Castle Donington - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Didcot Parkway - Reading - Wokingham - Farnborough - Guildford - Dorking - Gatwick Airport

Lincoln - Birmingham New Street
• Replacing the current service from Nottingham to Birmingham New Street.
• Introduce an hourly Birmingham Moor Street to Derby service.
• The flat crossing at Newark would finally need to be replaced.

Birmingham New Street - Gatwick Airport
• Reintroducing a secondly hourly service between Birmingham New Street and Reading.
• Replacing the former Virgin CrossCountry service to Gatwick Airport and mirroring part of the proposed Grand Central route from Reading to Gatwick Airport.
• Capacity improvements would have to be made on the North Downs line to accomadate the additional services.

Part of the idea was also to avoid people having to interchange at Birmingham New Street when they are going North - South or North - South, which is part of the aim of the current network too.

*Liverpool Lime Street - Gatwick Airport (Change at Staford, Wolverhampton, Coventry, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford)
*Liverpool Lime Steet - Exeter St Davids (Change at Staford, Wolverhampton)
*Liverpool Lime Street - Cardiff Central (Wasn't there a proposal for Transport for Wales to introduce a Liverpool - Cardiff service via Hereford?)
*Manchester Piccadilly - Cambridge (Change at Stafford, Wolverhampton, Coventry)
*Manchester Piccaddilly - Southampton Central (Change at Staford, Wolverhampton, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford)
*Manchester Piccadilly - Cardiff Central (Already a Transport for Wales service that covers this route)
*Leeds - Southampton Central (Change at Derby, Burton-on-Trent)
*Leeds - Gatwick Airport (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Birmingham International, Coventry)
*Leeds - Exeter St Davids (Change at Derby, Burton-on-Trent, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire Parkway, Cheltenham Spa)
*Newcastle Central - Cardiff Central (Change at Derby, Burton-on-Trent, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire Parkway, Cheltenham Spa)
*Newcastle Central - Cambridge (Change at Derby, Burton-on-Trent)
*Newcastle Central - Gatwick Airport (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford)
*Lincoln - Exeter St Davids (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire Parkway, Cheltenham Spa)
*Lincoln - Southampton Central (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford)
*Lincoln - Cambridge (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Birmingham International, Coventry)

 

[FGWHST43009]

*Newcastle Central - Cardiff Central (Change at Derby, Burton-on-Trent, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire Parkway, Cheltenham Spa)

You can also change at Bristol Parkway for this journey. Usually faster as it's usually a 9/10 car 80x compared to a 3 car Turbostar which is slower. But if this is speculative then direct Newcastle to Cardiff Central via Bristol Parkway or via Gloucester and extend to Swansea. If through from Edinburgh something like:

Edinburgh, Berwick-upon-Tweed, Newcastle, Darlington, York, Doncaster, Sheffield, Derby, New St, Cheltenham Spa, Bristol Parkway or Gloucester, Newport, Cardiff Central, Swansea

Could maybe include Bridgend or Neath. Intended to be faster than existing GWR between Cardiff Central and Swansea

 

[BerkshireRails]

Part of the idea was also to avoid people having to interchange at Birmingham New Street when they are going North - South or North - South, which is part of the aim of the current network too.

*Liverpool Lime Street - Gatwick Airport (Change at Staford, Wolverhampton, Coventry, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford)
*Newcastle Central - Gatwick Airport (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford)

What would the calling pattern be for these two services and how frequently would they run?

 

[freetoview33]

What would the calling pattern be for these two services and how frequently would they run?

It was to suggest if people were taking those routes then that is where they could change.

 

[The Planner]

Part of the idea was also to avoid people having to interchange at Birmingham New Street when they are going North - South or North - South, which is part of the aim of the current network too.

*Liverpool Lime Street - Gatwick Airport (Change at Staford, Wolverhampton, Coventry, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford)
*Liverpool Lime Steet - Exeter St Davids (Change at Staford, Wolverhampton)
*Liverpool Lime Street - Cardiff Central (Wasn't there a proposal for Transport for Wales to introduce a Liverpool - Cardiff service via Hereford?)
*Manchester Piccadilly - Cambridge (Change at Stafford, Wolverhampton, Coventry)
*Manchester Piccaddilly - Southampton Central (Change at Staford, Wolverhampton, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford)
*Manchester Piccadilly - Cardiff Central (Already a Transport for Wales service that covers this route)
*Leeds - Southampton Central (Change at Derby, Burton-on-Trent)
*Leeds - Gatwick Airport (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Birmingham International, Coventry)
*Leeds - Exeter St Davids (Change at Derby, Burton-on-Trent, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire Parkway, Cheltenham Spa)
*Newcastle Central - Cardiff Central (Change at Derby, Burton-on-Trent, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire Parkway, Cheltenham Spa)
*Newcastle Central - Cambridge (Change at Derby, Burton-on-Trent)
*Newcastle Central - Gatwick Airport (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford)
*Lincoln - Exeter St Davids (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire Parkway, Cheltenham Spa)
*Lincoln - Southampton Central (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford)
*Lincoln - Cambridge (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Birmingham International, Coventry)

So are these all standard hourly paths for each destination pair? If so, you aren't making them fit.

 

[Magdalia]

*Newcastle Central - Cambridge (Change at Derby, Burton-on-Trent)

*Lincoln - Cambridge (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Birmingham International, Coventry)

People making these journeys don't go anywhere near the Midlands. They change trains at Peterborough.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Long one folks - been thinking about these suggestions for a bit over 5 months...

Theres a lot of things I'd want overhauled at CrossCountry put it that way. However I'll stick to the topic...

1. Mixture of 5-car and 7-car Class 80x tri-mode trains - a bit more 5-car to allow for 10-car workings on special events days where a 7-car won't be enough. XC managed for 16 years with 7-car HST's when they were back from 2008-2023.

2. Similar or same layout to the Avanti 80x trains.

3. Changes to diagrams - I'm well aware how pathing worlds but I'm sure if my suggestions were taken onboard then it could be discussed.

4. First Class in the same carriage as the buffet like the HST's did rather than in the middle like on the LNER Azumas. That way First Class can be served easier.

5. Order for delivery to your seat if not a trolley service to assist as well.

Now, The Voyager routes / calling points on the corridors at the moment I'd have as the following in the daytime and Off-Peak (I'm likely to think differently knowing me) but with the 80x trains..

PLYMOUTH - EDINBURGH (calling points to / from Penzance and Plymouth would stay the same)...
Totnes, Newton Abbot, Exeter St. David's, Taunton, Bristol Temple Meads, Bristol Parkway, Cheltenham Spa, Birmingham New Street, Derby, Sheffield, York, Newcastle, Alnmouth (1tp2h), Berwick-Upon-Tweed (1tp2h) and Edinburgh. One extension to / from Inverness (17:33 from Edinburgh and 09:42 from Inverness replacing ScotRail). In the reverse direction, Worcestershire Parkway would be served.


BOURNEMOUTH - NEWCASTLE (mostly every 2 hours to and from EDINBURGH):
Brockenhurst (1tpd), Southampton Central, Southampton Airport Parkway, Winchester, Basingstoke, Reading, Oxford, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Birmingham New Street, Tamworth, Derby, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Wakefield Westgate, Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle, Morpeth,
Alnmouth, Berwick-Upon-Tweed, Reston, Dunbar, East Linton and Edinburgh. Extensions to and from Glasgow Central and Aberdeen would be the same as at present - except my proposal would see the 06:24 Edinburgh to Glasgow Central replaced by an 07:24 (ex-05:30 from Newcastle). The 07:48 from Glasgow Central would be replaced by an 09:00.

I've not included Burton-on-Trent as Tamworth has good connections from LNWR services from Euston and the North whether as Burton-on-Trent doesn't.

CrossCountry replacing TPE would be better as it would mean more passengers can be kept moving in the events of ticket acceptance.

BRIGHTON (5tpd) & READING - MANCHESTER PICCADILLY...
Haywards Heath, Gatwick Airport, Redhill, Guildford, Wokingham, Reading, Oxford, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Coventry, Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield, Stockport and Manchester Piccadilly.

PAIGNTON (2tpd) & BRISTOL TEMPLE MEADS (1tph) - EDINBURGH (1tp2h) and GLASGOW CENTRAL via MANCHESTER PICCADILLY...
Torquay, Newton Abbot, Exeter St Davids, Tiverton Parkway, Taunton, Bristol Temple Meads, Bristol Parkway, Cheltenham Spa, Worcestershire Parkway, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield, Stockport, Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Oxford Road, Bolton (northbound pick up only, southbound set down only), Preston, Lancashire, Oxenholme Lake District, Penrith, Carlisle, Lockerbie, Motherwell and Glasgow Central. or (after Lockerbie) Haymarket and Edinburgh.

TPE would be removed and another through journey unlocked from Birmingham New Street and the West Midlands North of there albeit Manchester.

 

[Bald Rick]

So are these all standard hourly paths for each destination pair? If so, you aren't making them fit.

Come on, why do I have to keep explaining SmartTimetabling (TM) to you?

 

[The Planner]

Come on, why do I have to keep explaining SmartTimetabling (TM) to you?

I have the trademark on mediocre.

 

[PTR 444]

If a new Birmingham - Cambridge service via EWR is created, I would divert the existing XC service via Peterborough to Norwich in place of the EMR service. The remaining portion of the service between Ely and Stansted could then become an extension of EMR’s Nottingham - Ely section.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

If a new Birmingham - Cambridge service via EWR is created, I would divert the existing XC service via Peterborough to Norwich in place of the EMR service. The remaining portion of the service between Ely and Stansted could then become an extension of EMR’s Nottingham - Ely section.

That route use to exist, yes but with Class 31's and Mark 1's from Birmingham.

Good idea that and then more capacity could be considered - EMR run 2-car 158's and 3-car 170's South of Peterborough so worth a thought!

 

[BerkshireRails]

If a new Birmingham - Cambridge service via EWR is created, I would divert the existing XC service via Peterborough to Norwich in place of the EMR service. The remaining portion of the service between Ely and Stansted could then become an extension of EMR’s Nottingham - Ely section.

I am struggling to see how that could be operated without a reversal move at Oxford, Bletchley or Bedford. Although it is a new idea in the current plans I don't think service operationally would be a good move.

 

[PTR 444]

I am struggling to see how that could be operated without a reversal move at Oxford, Bletchley or Bedford. Although it is a new idea in the current plans I don't think service operationally would be a good move.

It would use a newly constructed chord at Bletchley, avoiding the need for a reversal.

 

[zwk500]

If a new Birmingham - Cambridge service via EWR is created, I would divert the existing XC service via Peterborough to Norwich in place of the EMR service. The remaining portion of the service between Ely and Stansted could then become an extension of EMR’s Nottingham - Ely section.

So to be clear you'd be running a Birmingham-MK-Cambridge-Norwich service and a Nottingham-Ely-Stansted service instead of Birmingham-Peterborough-Stansted and Nottingham-Ely-Norwich?

That means a net increase of 1tph in each direction between Cambridge and Ely doesn't it?

 

[PTR 444]

So to be clear you'd be running a Birmingham-MK-Cambridge-Norwich service

1tph Birmingham - Cambridge via MK, and 1tph Birmingham - Norwich via Peterborough, so no net increase in trains between Cambridge and Ely.

and a Nottingham-Ely-Stansted service instead of Birmingham-Peterborough-Stansted and Nottingham-Ely-Norwich?

Correct.

 

[William3000]

I am struggling to see how that could be operated without a reversal move at Oxford, Bletchley or Bedford. Although it is a new idea in the current plans I don't think service operationally would be a good move.

The plan I’ve been advised about from Network Rail is Birmingham New Street via Northampton, Milton Keynes Central, and a north to east curve at Bletchley, Bedford and coming into Cambridge via EWR from the south

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2025 ==

So to be clear you'd be running a Birmingham-MK-Cambridge-Norwich service and a Nottingham-Ely-Stansted service instead of Birmingham-Peterborough-Stansted and Nottingham-Ely-Norwich?

That means a net increase of 1tph in each direction between Cambridge and Ely doesn't it?

I think the most appropriate would be each hour

1 x Birmingham NS, Birmingham International, Coventry, Rugby, Northampton, Milton Keynes Central, Bedford (Midland), Tempsford, Cambourne, Cambridge South, Cambridge

1 x Birmingham NS, Coleshill Parkway, Nuneaton, Leicester, Melton Mowbray, Oakham, Stamford, Peterborough, March, Ely, Thetford, Norwich

1x Liverpool Lime Street, Warrington Central, Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Sheffield, Chesterfield, Alfreton, Nottingham, Grantham, Peterborough, March, Ely, Cambridge, Cambridge South, Stansted Airport

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2025 ==

1tph Birmingham - Cambridge via MK, and 1tph Birmingham - Norwich via Peterborough, so no net increase in trains between Cambridge and Ely.

Correct.

It would make more sense to divert the Liverpool service to Cambridge or Stansted - Peterborough and March need an airport connection and Cambridge is 3 times busier than Norwich.

 

[zwk500]

1tph Birmingham - Cambridge via MK, and 1tph Birmingham - Norwich via Peterborough, so no net increase in trains between Cambridge and Ely.

Ah right, but still an additional train Birmingham-Rugby

 

[freetoview33]

Surly Northampton - Bedford would be faster IF that line ever reopened.

 

[CMS1]

Yes, it would cut about 12 miles off EWR to WCML. It's an alternative to the Bletchely curve, but can't imagine theres a business case for the additional cost (maybe if it became a major freight route)!

 

[BerkshireRails]

Surly Northampton - Bedford would be faster IF that line ever reopened.

Depends on what Northampton - Bedford Line speed would be and what the planned line speed of the Marston Vale Line is. You could have a longer route which is faster due to speed limits.

 

[frodshamfella]

Part of the idea was also to avoid people having to interchange at Birmingham New Street when they are going North - South or North - South, which is part of the aim of the current network too.

*Liverpool Lime Street - Gatwick Airport (Change at Staford, Wolverhampton, Coventry, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford)
*Liverpool Lime Steet - Exeter St Davids (Change at Staford, Wolverhampton)
*Liverpool Lime Street - Cardiff Central (Wasn't there a proposal for Transport for Wales to introduce a Liverpool - Cardiff service via Hereford?)
*Manchester Piccadilly - Cambridge (Change at Stafford, Wolverhampton, Coventry)
*Manchester Piccaddilly - Southampton Central (Change at Staford, Wolverhampton, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford)
*Manchester Piccadilly - Cardiff Central (Already a Transport for Wales service that covers this route)
*Leeds - Southampton Central (Change at Derby, Burton-on-Trent)
*Leeds - Gatwick Airport (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Birmingham International, Coventry)
*Leeds - Exeter St Davids (Change at Derby, Burton-on-Trent, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire Parkway, Cheltenham Spa)
*Newcastle Central - Cardiff Central (Change at Derby, Burton-on-Trent, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire Parkway, Cheltenham Spa)
*Newcastle Central - Cambridge (Change at Derby, Burton-on-Trent)
*Newcastle Central - Gatwick Airport (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford)
*Lincoln - Exeter St Davids (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Bromsgrove, Worcestershire Parkway, Cheltenham Spa)
*Lincoln - Southampton Central (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Leamington Spa, Banbury, Oxford)
*Lincoln - Cambridge (Change at Burton-on-Trent, Birmingham International, Coventry)

I believe its still TFW aspirations to provide Liverpool - Cardiff via Halton Curve. It is taking them a long time to get going.

 

[freetoview33]

I believe its still TFW aspirations to provide Liverpool - Cardiff via Halton Curve. It is taking them a long time to get going.

I guess it would be every 2 hours alternating with the Cardiff - Holyhead

 

[I'm here now]

Long one folks - been thinking about these suggestions for a bit over 5 months...

Theres a lot of things I'd want overhauled at CrossCountry put it that way. However I'll stick to the topic...

1. Mixture of 5-car and 7-car Class 80x tri-mode trains - a bit more 5-car to allow for 10-car workings on special events days where a 7-car won't be enough. XC managed for 16 years with 7-car HST's when they were back from 2008-2023.

2. Similar or same layout to the Avanti 80x trains.

3. Changes to diagrams - I'm well aware how pathing worlds but I'm sure if my suggestions were taken onboard then it could be discussed.

4. First Class in the same carriage as the buffet like the HST's did rather than in the middle like on the LNER Azumas. That way First Class can be served easier.

5. Order for delivery to your seat if not a trolley service to assist as well.

Now, The Voyager routes / calling points on the corridors at the moment I'd have as the following in the daytime and Off-Peak (I'm likely to think differently knowing me) but with the 80x trains..

PLYMOUTH - EDINBURGH (calling points to / from Penzance and Plymouth would stay the same)...
Totnes, Newton Abbot, Exeter St. David's, Taunton, Bristol Temple Meads, Bristol Parkway, Cheltenham Spa, Birmingham New Street, Derby, Sheffield, York, Newcastle, Alnmouth (1tp2h), Berwick-Upon-Tweed (1tp2h) and Edinburgh. One extension to / from Inverness (17:33 from Edinburgh and 09:42 from Inverness replacing ScotRail). In the reverse direction, Worcestershire Parkway would be served.


BOURNEMOUTH - NEWCASTLE (mostly every 2 hours to and from EDINBURGH):
Brockenhurst (1tpd), Southampton Central, Southampton Airport Parkway, Winchester, Basingstoke, Reading, Oxford, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Birmingham New Street, Tamworth, Derby, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Wakefield Westgate, Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle, Morpeth,
Alnmouth, Berwick-Upon-Tweed, Reston, Dunbar, East Linton and Edinburgh. Extensions to and from Glasgow Central and Aberdeen would be the same as at present - except my proposal would see the 06:24 Edinburgh to Glasgow Central replaced by an 07:24 (ex-05:30 from Newcastle). The 07:48 from Glasgow Central would be replaced by an 09:00.

I've not included Burton-on-Trent as Tamworth has good connections from LNWR services from Euston and the North whether as Burton-on-Trent doesn't.

CrossCountry replacing TPE would be better as it would mean more passengers can be kept moving in the events of ticket acceptance.

BRIGHTON (5tpd) & READING - MANCHESTER PICCADILLY...
Haywards Heath, Gatwick Airport, Redhill, Guildford, Wokingham, Reading, Oxford, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Coventry, Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield, Stockport and Manchester Piccadilly.

PAIGNTON (2tpd) & BRISTOL TEMPLE MEADS (1tph) - EDINBURGH (1tp2h) and GLASGOW CENTRAL via MANCHESTER PICCADILLY...
Torquay, Newton Abbot, Exeter St Davids, Tiverton Parkway, Taunton, Bristol Temple Meads, Bristol Parkway, Cheltenham Spa, Worcestershire Parkway, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield, Stockport, Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Oxford Road, Bolton (northbound pick up only, southbound set down only), Preston, Lancashire, Oxenholme Lake District, Penrith, Carlisle, Lockerbie, Motherwell and Glasgow Central. or (after Lockerbie) Haymarket and Edinburgh.

TPE would be removed and another through journey unlocked from Birmingham New Street and the West Midlands North of there albeit Manchester.

There’s many a service pattern south of the Tamar, some that whizz through the main towns for no apparent reason, etc. What are you proposing?

 

[FGWHST43009]

Long one folks - been thinking about these suggestions for a bit over 5 months...

Theres a lot of things I'd want overhauled at CrossCountry put it that way. However I'll stick to the topic...

1. Mixture of 5-car and 7-car Class 80x tri-mode trains - a bit more 5-car to allow for 10-car workings on special events days where a 7-car won't be enough. XC managed for 16 years with 7-car HST's when they were back from 2008-2023.

2. Similar or same layout to the Avanti 80x trains.

3. Changes to diagrams - I'm well aware how pathing worlds but I'm sure if my suggestions were taken onboard then it could be discussed.

4. First Class in the same carriage as the buffet like the HST's did rather than in the middle like on the LNER Azumas. That way First Class can be served easier.

5. Order for delivery to your seat if not a trolley service to assist as well.

Now, The Voyager routes / calling points on the corridors at the moment I'd have as the following in the daytime and Off-Peak (I'm likely to think differently knowing me) but with the 80x trains..

PLYMOUTH - EDINBURGH (calling points to / from Penzance and Plymouth would stay the same)...
Totnes, Newton Abbot, Exeter St. David's, Taunton, Bristol Temple Meads, Bristol Parkway, Cheltenham Spa, Birmingham New Street, Derby, Sheffield, York, Newcastle, Alnmouth (1tp2h), Berwick-Upon-Tweed (1tp2h) and Edinburgh. One extension to / from Inverness (17:33 from Edinburgh and 09:42 from Inverness replacing ScotRail). In the reverse direction, Worcestershire Parkway would be served.

I would definitely be in favour of this. I think the Plymouth-Edinburgh should be the express service at it's less convenient to go via London. Would also make rail more competitive with air and road. Also would make my travels home from the North East to South Wales quicker.

 

[Killingworth]

The joined up railway this is not.

Today there's only one through train from Sheffield to Penzance at 10.56 arriving 17.42. I've just seen a large family with 4 adults, 5 young children (including wide double buggy) and massive suitcases miss the train by minutes. Their connecting train from Hull had been 2 minutes late but booked passenger assist was otherwise engaged - because the lift on Platform 1 is out of order. That was a tight connection but normally quite possible.

The best alternative included an hour's wait with a change and arrival at 19.25, a daunting prospect for the group who were taking it amazingly well.

There are no magic solutions for CrossCountry. Just making everything work to the existing plans would be a good start. Tinkering tends to create news problems.