Idea: Class 365

[MatthewRead]

317722 was a Cl317 demonstrator that turned out to be quite unreliable.

What's happened to 722 may I ask?

 

[D365]

Nothing’s happened, that’s the point - Angel Trains isn’t putting any more money into the 317s.

 

[43096]

Nothing’s happened, that’s the point - Angel Trains isn’t putting any more money into the 317s.

To be fair, if you were Angel, would you?

 

[class387]

What's happened to 722 may I ask?

I'm pretty sure it's withdrawn.

 

[Class313:)]

Grayling did cancel a fair few electrifications though

 

[Non Multi]

Grayling did cancel a fair few electrifications though

I would have expected HM Treasury to have made the decision for him, considering the GW project was massively over budget. IIRC they wanted Alistair Darling to kill off Crossrail in 2009/2010 when he was Chancellor.

 

[Mikey C]

Grayling did cancel a fair few electrifications though

I don't agree with much of what he has done, but to an extent the cancellations have been self inflicted by the railway industry. It's not as if the money for electrification has been removed, but rather if every programme costs (say) twice as much as forecast, you can only electrify half as much and become more wary about doing much more.

 

[Class313:)]

i suppose. But attempting to convert 20/30 year old MUs into bi-mode isnt helping matters

 

[delt1c]

certain branch lines were electrified in the 80's and 90's not because the patronage was economic return on passengers was sufficient but because it eliminated small diesel pockets and made sense. In most cases it resulted in substantial passenger growth.
Amazing how we have progressed in the 21st centuary

 

[Class313:)]

exactly

 

[Class465fan]

They could work up north but as @Domh245 said they might require some testings/modifications etc.

 

[Class313:)]

Where up north?

 

[D365]

There's no reason for any further ex-BR EMUs to be cascaded, the 331s will constitute the growth in Northern's fleet.

 

[Wivenswold]

317722 was a little like 321448. An exercise in prolonging the life of existing EMUs. While neither are officially withdrawn, yet, I don't think they'll see active service again. 448 may see further use for training/gauging if the 30 Renatus units do find future use for Northern.

Before anyone asks, that last bit is a rumour that's doing the rounds, so treat with caution.

 

[Class313:)]

There's no reason for any further ex-BR EMUs to be cascaded, the 331s will constitute the growth in Northern's fleet.

The 365s are good quality express Networkers. I can see no point in cascading 2nd-gen EMUs, but the Networkers are a different matter

 

[Class465fan]

Agreed

 

[D365]

The Renatus 321s will be available, there's more of them and will be easier to cascade. However the only reason they would go to Northern would be if they could arrange some kind of replacement for the 319s.

 

[Class313:)]

The 321s sure are easier to cascade and there are more of them, but they dont have as much life left as the 365s. Also WAGN//GN did a good bit of work on the 365s, its not just the 321s with a fancy refurb. And also 365s are Happy Train surely you want Happy Train? And there is also the fact that 321s are 2nd gen EMUs, which in my opinion are kind of cascade-expired. the inner suburban ECML is my local line, so I see them a lot. And they look in very good shape. There is also the fact that 321s to my knowledge are 90mph versus 100mph for a 365

 

[D365]

The 321s sure are easier to cascade and there are more of them, but they will need a traction refurb at some point...

Which the Renatus units are getting. The traction equipment on the 365s is obsolete and needs more work to avoid EMC interference with signalling.

 

[Class313:)]

Give them a traction refurb then. 321s will probably need a something-else refurb at some point....they are 30 years old. Or optionally you could cascade both .

 

[Class465fan]

Or they could they be cascaded back to southeastern or is that no longer feasible as their third rail equipment has been removed?

 

[43096]

Give them a traction refurb then. 321s will probably need a something-else refurb at some point....they are 30 years old. Or optionally you could cascade both .

You appear to be ignorant of what the Class 321 Renatus programme involves. In summary: complete interior refurbishment and new AC traction system.
https://www.eversholtrail.co.uk/news/class-321-renatus

 

[D365]

Or they could they be cascaded back to southeastern or is that no longer feasible as their third rail equipment has been removed?

For all intents and purposes the 365s can be considered AC only.

The next Kent franchise will likely consider an Aventra order to replace the metro fleet, which will replace their existing Networkers.

 

[Hadders]

Also WAGN//GN did a good bit of work on the 365s

WAGN maintained what they inherited from British Rail. The FCC refresh was a minor downgrade. The GN refurbishment was a dumbing down to get us redy for the bargain basement interiors of the 700s.

 

[Class313:)]

WHAT HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT! WAGN made it Happy Train . I give up. Renatus 321s beat cl, 365s. R.I.P Happy train

 

[Class465fan]

So what routes excluding the GN route can they operate on? You can't just scrap mid-life fleet of trains that has recently(ish) been refurbished.

 

[D365]

There’s only so much you can do with the number of small electric fleets going off-lease. Finding a new home is Eversholt’s problem.

 

[Class313:)]

I am suing GN for abuse of Happy Train

 

[brel york]

What about a transit van at each end with that road rail gear , if you got a high roof one it would make excellent bike storage

 

[Class313:)]

What the hell. Even WabTec wouldnt come up with a scheme as far fetched as that