ICE1 shortening from 12 to 9 trailers

[Jamesrob637]

Is there a thread on this, as I cannot see one? Wikipedia suggests that work to shorten the ICE1 is "well in progress".

 

[43096]

Is there a thread on this, as I cannot see one? Wikipedia suggests that work to shorten the ICE1 is "well in progress".

Yes, it’s well underway, with the LDV refurbishment programme over 25 sets completed so far. Other sets are being shortened to 2+9 without refurbishment yet as operational needs dictate. It’s a classic cascade with ICE4 sets coming in that displace ICE1 and ICE2 which then get redeployed, so that the conventional IC sets drop out.

 

[YorkshireBear]

What is the rationale behind it? Are they being relegated?

 

[Jamesrob637]

What is the rationale behind it? Are they being relegated?

I think it will improve acceleration, increase passenger comfort, but still keep the image of the ICE1 on the rails.

 

[43096]

What is the rationale behind it? Are they being relegated?

See my post above…

I think it will improve acceleration, increase passenger comfort, but still keep the image of the ICE1 on the rails.

It doesn’t change passenger comfort. The revised sets are formed of power car, two firsts, restaurant, service/disabled second, five seconds, power car.

Travelling on an ICE1 set is one of my favourite rail experiences. Especially if you can get one of the compartments to yourselves.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Less vehicles to maintain, so saves money. If you are very lucky, DB might even be able to offer IC services on secondary routes with the extra fleet they now have given the huge influx of new trains over the past four years. But I can't imagine the financial case is very good, even at the higher fares that IC services require! (In effect, DB could abstract revenue from the Lander-sponsored regional networks here, ie. the Federal government take revernue from the states....).

 

[HST43257]

If it means they can remain operating on routes that suit <9, then makes good sense

 

[Austriantrain]

I think it will improve acceleration, increase passenger comfort, but still keep the image of the ICE1 on the rails.

As far as I understand it, the restaurant cars have reached the end of their useful life. And the power cars are showing their age too. With the new stock arriving and - without restaurant car - the ICE1 not usable anymore for the most prestigious
services, they are being redeployed to routes with less demand. As they are also less heavy with less coaches, easier on the power cars. And avoids the need to refurbish those coaches which are in the worst condition.

EDIT: wrong about the restaurant car.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As far as I understand it, the restaurant cars have reached the end of their useful life. And the power cars are showing their age too. With the new stock arriving and - without restaurant car - the ICE1 not usable anymore for the most prestigious services, they are being redeployed to routes with less demand. As they are also less heavy with less coaches, easier on the power cars. And avoids the need to refurbish those coaches which are in the worst condition.

So they'll be using the ICE brand but with no restaurant car?

How the mighty have fallen.

I did recall the reason for removing the Bistrowagen from the IC1 sets was that too many accidents were occurring with the old style folding doors, but I'm shocked to hear that they're going to devalue the ICE "Gattung" by doing that as well, unless they're going to be rebranded IC and take the lower IC fares?

 

[YorkshireBear]

See my post above…

It doesn’t change passenger comfort. The revised sets are formed of power car, two firsts, restaurant, service/disabled second, five seconds, power car.

Travelling on an ICE1 set is one of my favourite rail experiences. Especially if you can get one of the compartments to yourselves.

Apologies my post happened significantly after I pressed post due to connection issue.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

The Restaurant Car is staying. Originally it was planned to remove it and convert another car to part-restaurant car as found in other ICE fleets, but this turned out to be too expensive to be worth doing.

I see it as a similar scheme to the "Castle Class" HST sets. For a low price, you can keep a train which offers good customer comfort on the rails. The reduction in length will match capacity to demand on the more minor routes it will now be used on, and improve performance so that it compares better against more modern units with distributed traction. Since it is basically a set of carriages hauled by two locomotives, this is easy to do(the power cars can even run alone, although only in one direction!).

 

[43096]

As far as I understand it, the restaurant cars have reached the end of their useful life. And the power cars are showing their age too. With the new stock arriving and - without restaurant car - the ICE1 not usable anymore for the most prestigious services, they are being redeployed to routes with less demand. As they are also less heavy with less coaches, easier on the power cars. And avoids the need to refurbish those coaches which are in the worst condition.

The restaurant cars are staying in the sets, as I posted above. Clearly DB don’t think the power cars are that tired or they wouldn’t be overhauling them for another 10 years life. They have also all received IGBT converters as part of the life extension.

 

[Austriantrain]

The Restaurant Car is staying. Originally it was planned to remove it and convert another car to part-restaurant car as found in other ICE fleets, but this turned out to be too expensive to be worth doing.

Sorry about that then, I missed this change.

 

[route101]

What routes do the ICE1 sets run?
What routes do IC loco and carriages run? I know Amsterdam to Berlin is one.

 

[Trainbike46]

What routes do the ICE1 sets run?
What routes do IC loco and carriages run? I know Amsterdam to Berlin is one.

Amsterdam to Berlin is getting the new ICE-L sets build by Talgo when they arrive. Initially hauled by NS vectrons, and later by purpose-built Talgo locomotives (with a top speed of 230 km/h)

According to wikipedia, the ICE1 sets currently run on:

Hamburg-Altona via Hannover–Göttingen–Kassel-Wilhelmshöhe–Frankfurt (Main)–Mannheim–Karlsruhe–Baden-Baden–Freiburg to Basel (ICE line 20) or to Stuttgart (branching off at Mannheim, ICE line 22)
Berlin via Wolfsburg–Braunschweig–Hildesheim–Göttingen–Kassel-Wilhelmshöhe–Fulda–Hanau–Frankfurt (Main)–Mannheim to Karlsruhe–Offenburg–Basel (ICE line 12) or Stuttgart–Ulm–Augsburg–Munich (ICE line 11)
Hamburg-Altona via Hannover–Göttingen–Kassel-Wilhelmshöhe–Würzburg–Nuremberg–Ingolstadt to Munich (ICE line 25)
Hamburg-Altona to Berlin (part of ICE line 28)

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_1#Operation

 

[Fragezeichnen]

Traction allocations for Timetable Year 2024:
ICE 1
ICE 1 LDV

IC:
BR101 + IC Coaches (essentially extinct except for a handful of 'awkward' services)
plus services to Amsterdam and Copenhagen with Deutsche Bahn carriages and Vectron locomotives.

International Services to Poland/Czech Republic/Switzerland/Hungary/Slovakia/Austria also use classic loco hauled carriages, but not Deutsche Bahn ones(the Graz and Klagenfurt services ran with DB Stock for the last time on Monday).

 

[YorkshireBear]

Traction allocations for Timetable Year 2024:
ICE 1
ICE 1 LDV

IC:
BR101 + IC Coaches (essentially extinct except for a handful of 'awkward' services)
plus services to Amsterdam and Copenhagen with Deutsche Bahn carriages and Vectron locomotives.

International Services to Poland/Czech Republic/Switzerland/Hungary/Slovakia/Austria also use classic loco hauled carriages, but not Deutsche Bahn ones(the Graz and Klagenfurt services ran with DB Stock for the last time on Monday).

I did notice in cologne that basically no loco hauled intercity services ran anymore last weekend. Compared to just a year ago when there was loads running down the old Rhine route. They seem to be fairly efficient at removing the old stock compared to over here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I did notice in cologne that basically no loco hauled intercity services ran anymore last weekend. Compared to just a year ago when there was loads running down the old Rhine route. They seem to be fairly efficient at removing the old stock compared to over here.

They're quite well motivated to, as converting an IC to an ICE lets them up the fares!

 

[ABB125]

Traction allocations for Timetable Year 2024:
ICE 1
ICE 1 LDV

IC:
BR101 + IC Coaches (essentially extinct except for a handful of 'awkward' services)
plus services to Amsterdam and Copenhagen with Deutsche Bahn carriages and Vectron locomotives.

International Services to Poland/Czech Republic/Switzerland/Hungary/Slovakia/Austria also use classic loco hauled carriages, but not Deutsche Bahn ones(the Graz and Klagenfurt services ran with DB Stock for the last time on Monday).

Is that really all that's left of "traditional" IC services?!

 

[bahnause]

Some are still in the 12 car formation. There is a nice Cabview video on YouTube (Göttingen - Kassel):

ICE 1 Göttingen - Kassel

They can struggle a bit in wet conditions, but sand helps a lot. Not ideal for stop and go though. 9 car formations will cope better.

 

[37201xoIM]

Is that really all that's left of "traditional" IC services?!

I guess that depends whether you count the so-called "IC2" services (class 147 loco and 5 double-deck push-pull coaches) as a proper IC train, or just as a Regionalexpress with pretensions...

 

[43096]

I guess that depends whether you count the so-called "IC2" services (class 147 loco and 5 double-deck push-pull coaches) as a proper IC train, or just as a Regionalexpress with pretensions...

With the Bistro cars being withdrawn from the conventional IC stock, then an IC is now consistent in catering terms between a IC1 set and a IC2 set with Class 146 or 147 loco. It's only ICEs and (some) ECs that have full catering facilities in Germany now.

 

[superalbs]

I did notice in cologne that basically no loco hauled intercity services ran anymore last weekend. Compared to just a year ago when there was loads running down the old Rhine route. They seem to be fairly efficient at removing the old stock compared to over here.

Huh? I arrived there on one a few days ago, and saw plenty more hauled IC. Admittedly some of them were the rather naff double-deck sets, but still hauled IC.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2023 ==

Is that really all that's left of "traditional" IC services?!

Lots of IC services now operate with Stadler KISS units from Westbahn, or double-deck hauled sets nearly identical to the DB Regio ones.

It seems the proper single-deck IC is quickly dying off!

 

[Jamesrob637]

It seems the proper single-deck IC is quickly dying off!

schade, as they say there

 

[HamworthyGoods]

With the Bistro cars being withdrawn from the conventional IC stock, then an IC is now consistent in catering terms between a IC1 set and a IC2 set with Class 146 or 147 loco. It's only ICEs and (some) ECs that have full catering facilities in Germany now.

Services operated by Railjets (designated RJ and RJX) in Germany also have full catering facilities.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Services operated by Railjets (designated RJ and RJX) in Germany also have full catering facilities.

I'm partial to a well-cooked Wiener Schnitzel, however that's a) a little off-topic and b) making me hungry at 09:00, which isn't good