Ice preventing current to a train.

[shakey1961]

I see Merseyrail are struggling today as ice has formed on the third rail so preventing trains from picking up current. We're supposed to be getting brand new, state of the art rolling stock from this summer onwards. Can run an old or a new train if there's ice on the third rail.

Surely there must be some way of heating a third rail or OHLE so that ice doesn't form on it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They always used to run de-icing trains over it every morning - very often that would result in a cancellation so it could run in the path of a service train. These days they are DMUs so ice doesn't prevent the de-icing train running (ha!). Were they perhaps caught out here?

 

[shakey1961]

I think this weather was forcast. How difficult is it heat a thrid rail or OHLE?

 

[krus_aragon]

I see Merseyrail are struggling today as ice has formed on the third rail so preventing trains from picking up current. We're supposed to be getting brand new, state of the art rolling stock from this summer onwards. Can run an old or a new train if there's ice on the third rail.

Surely there must be some way of heating a third rail or OHLE so that ice doesn't form on it.

The two obvious ways are to run trains through the night so ice doesn't have time to accumulate, or use the bottom-contact system (as on the DLR) so the relevant surface is sheltered from the elements.

 

[Muzer]

Yeah, the problem with being an early adopter (third rail was pretty early in terms of electrification schemes) is you get stuck with all the deficiencies! In this case newer electrification schemes can use side- or bottom-contact, but ours is stuck with top-contact which is pretty terrible.

 

[jamesst]

The two obvious ways are to run trains through the night so ice doesn't have time to accumulate, or use the bottom-contact system (as on the DLR) so the relevant surface is sheltered from the elements.

Route proving trains were run through the night, unfortunately a few of them hit problems where the ice had really built up in exposed areas.

 

[swt_passenger]

I see Merseyrail are struggling today as ice has formed on the third rail so preventing trains from picking up current. We're supposed to be getting brand new, state of the art rolling stock from this summer onwards. Can run an old or a new train if there's ice on the third rail.

Surely there must be some way of heating a third rail or OHLE so that ice doesn't form on it.

There is such a system. Not fitted everywhere, but some areas in the SE prone to regular icing are fitted with heating. Generally the former Southern Region is still dependent on treatment trains.

 

[M28361M]

There's a few photos in this Liverpool Echo article which show quite a thick layer of ice on the conductor rail, I'm not surprised the trains struggled. Ironically my rail replacement bus (between Hunts Cross and Moorfields, due to scheduled platform upgrade works) was probably the most punctual service this morning.

Did Network Rail get their de-icing train out? I know the MPVs can be utilised for this if necessary. Would this be something Network Rail do automatically if cold weather is forecast, or would Merseyrail have to request it?

 

[AM9]

The two obvious ways are to run trains through the night so ice doesn't have time to accumulate, or use the bottom-contact system (as on the DLR) so the relevant surface is sheltered from the elements.

Or have power delivered by OLE in areas where ice is likely to gather. Top contact 3rd rail is unreliable at best on surface railways in countries where temperatures can fall below freezing point in winter. On mainlines it can be a total disaster crippling all services.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Wet snow, then frost was bound to be difficult. Southern region (it isn't called that, is it?) have de-icing trains, presumably not round here. My recollection of living in the area is that snow is unusual and the roads suffer badly from amounts that would cause no problems in other areas.

 

[73001]

It was one of those rare combinations of wet sleet and freezing conditions plus a bit of snow thrown in. There was a good half an inch of solid ice on my car this morning made up of hail and snow and clear ice. It had to be chipped off so I imagine the conductor rails were in the same state. Any de-icer gets washed away by the wet sleet showers.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I turned up at Bache station this morning around 1000, to find no trains (the tracks/third rail had evidently not seen a train all morning).
The PIS said something like "No services. Passengers to make their own way...".
There were remote voice announcements (about being careful on slippery platforms, not about the missing trains).
At that point, NRE said services could not run south of Hooton but were expected to restart by 1030.
Then the restart time kept slipping, and I see from RTT that Chester trains started at 1440, but they are still off between Hooton and Ellesmere Port.
Quite poor really. Yes it was icy, but nothing like the heavy snow and ice in the Welsh hills.
The air temperature was above freezing by 0900 and the day was sunny, with no further showers.
Meanwhile, down the road at Chester, the other TOCs (VT, TfW and Northern) were all showing "good service".

 

[AY1975]

There's a few photos in this Liverpool Echo article which show quite a thick layer of ice on the conductor rail, I'm not surprised the trains struggled.

According to Real Time Trains, the train that had to be evacuated this morning would appear to be the 06.08 Liverpool Central-Southport, formed of unit 507 010 (pictured in the Liverpool Echo story).

 

[TheSel]

I turned up at Bache station this morning around 1000, ...
Then the restart time kept slipping, ....

Well, given the ice, it would!

(I'll get me coat - and scarf! might need it!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Meanwhile, down the road at Chester, the other TOCs (VT, TfW and Northern) were all showing "good service".

None of which TOCs run third rail trains, which means that given that the problem was with an iced-up third rail it's hardly surprising.

 

[DarloRich]

None of which TOCs run third rail trains, which means that given that the problem was with an iced-up third rail it's hardly surprising.

indeed! but lets not let facts get in the way...........

 

[Skie]

Heavy hail, then sleet, then freezing temperatures. My road is still treacherous after a full day of sun, and the car was like a block of ice. De-icer spray did nothing, just loosen up a small layer of hail that was frozen amongst the ice.

Merseyrail normally cope well in snow, but this was just a bad combination of elements.

 

[HaggisBotherer]

My memory of the Southern Region on very icy nights back in the day was that the early morning trains would see spectacular arcing

 

[Bletchleyite]

What was the reason for them being completely unable to get any buses for Chester? Seems surprising that they couldn't even later in the day. Or were road conditions very poor?

 

[Mag_seven]

What was the reason for them being completely unable to get any buses for Chester? Seems surprising that they couldn't even later in the day. Or were road conditions very poor?

I was at Chester station for about 30 mins today around lunchtime and seemingly all the normal service buses were running. They seemed to be accepting tickets from Chester to Liverpool to be valid via Crewe.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was at Chester station for about 30 mins today around lunchtime and seemingly all the normal service buses were running. They seemed to be accepting tickets from Chester to Liverpool to be valid via Crewe.

Shame the Halton Curve service isn't going yet. That said, anyone stuck at Ellesmere Port (pity them, it's a right dump) would have been service bus or nowt.