The last of the ICE 3Ms were withdrawn last year and put up for sale, but have there been any updates on them since then? I tried translating the German Wikipedia article but I couldn't find anything, and since I can't speak German it's a bit awkward trying to find information on it.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
ICE 3M Status?
- Thread starter Doomotron
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
- Joined
- 13 Dec 2018
- Messages
- 4,574
Information does seem to be scarce, all I could find is a couple of vehicles from set 4681 (406081 and 406181) have been scrapped along with whole of set 4685.
Information implies rest are still for sale but couldn't find a date so could well be out of date by now.
Information implies rest are still for sale but couldn't find a date so could well be out of date by now.
Fragezeichnen
Member
They're not listed on DB's public resale sites, but then any such purchase would probably be a multi-million pound negotiated deal and not something a regular company or association would be browsing.
I suspect in reality, like the MET, the offer to sell was symbolic and just to avoid accusations of trying to sabotage competition. I'd be astounded if anyone actually bought them. Who on earth could conceivably want and use them? They're way out of the league of any European Sleeper/Flix style operation and no major high speed operator would want tired trains built to someone else's spec.
You can't park a train like this in a siding and send a bloke with a box of spanners to fix it. It requires vast specialized maintenance facilities and expert technicians, which, in Germany, only Deutsche Bahn has. They will do maintenance under contract, but probably not in this case since the maintenance was so problematic in the first place.
The only thing I can think of that might make some sense would be RENFE, since they already operate a similar type and are already equipped with 25kV, LZB and ETCS as used on Spanish AVE lines. But I doubt they've any actual need for extra non-gauge changing trains that are older than their own Velaros.
I suspect in reality, like the MET, the offer to sell was symbolic and just to avoid accusations of trying to sabotage competition. I'd be astounded if anyone actually bought them. Who on earth could conceivably want and use them? They're way out of the league of any European Sleeper/Flix style operation and no major high speed operator would want tired trains built to someone else's spec.
You can't park a train like this in a siding and send a bloke with a box of spanners to fix it. It requires vast specialized maintenance facilities and expert technicians, which, in Germany, only Deutsche Bahn has. They will do maintenance under contract, but probably not in this case since the maintenance was so problematic in the first place.
The only thing I can think of that might make some sense would be RENFE, since they already operate a similar type and are already equipped with 25kV, LZB and ETCS as used on Spanish AVE lines. But I doubt they've any actual need for extra non-gauge changing trains that are older than their own Velaros.
- Joined
- 13 Dec 2018
- Messages
- 4,574
In addition I don't believe they were most reliable of trains hence their replacement?
Seem to remember lots of cancellations over the years and never relied on one to get to Brussels for a tight Eurostar connection. Always went for a train 2 hours earlier at least.
Is there any particular reason why they were (from an outsider's perspective) less reliable than the original ICE 3s? It's weird that the newer fleet would be withdrawn, although they obviously didn't do it for no reason.
The 406s didn't particularly like DC.
Amalie
Member
I’ve seen them listed at some point in the past.
GoVolta intends to run services between Amsterdam and Paris via the high speed line in 2028. Whether they’ll actually make it happen is another story of course.
It’s obviously not a particularly good idea though, as they would operate in the 3 countries they functioned the worst in during their DB lifetime, in addition to them needing (re-)certification for France along with the safety systems. But neither have they seemingly ordered any new high speed line compatible trains.
The ICE 3Ms especially didn’t enjoy switching between AC and DC, which the Dutch made somewhat worse when they introduced the 25KV AC+ETCS island between Arnhem and Emmerich.
They used to run in France before the 407, but since they had been reaffected to NL and ETCS being installed, the French systems have all been removed from them.
GoVolta's plan is absolute fantasy and likely will lead to bankruptcy trying to add the French equipment back, and recertification (with the red-tape that comes from the EPSF (Établissement Public de Sécurité Ferroviaire, the safety regulator)), on top of getting a 20 year old notoriously unreliable unit
Last edited:
duesselmartin
Established Member
are generally speaking, multi-voltage trains less reliable? It seems the German/Dutch RE19 Stadler sets (Düsseldorf-Arnhem) have issues too.
DanielB
Established Member
Those mainly have the issue that there are too few of them. AFAIK there are just two spare sets with multi voltage capabilities, so actually any issue with them results in a problem for cross border operation. It doesn't necessarily mean the equipment for the Dutch voltages is defective.
Staff shortage is also a frequent cause of cancellations (same for Arriva on RE18). In addition, the RE19 sets (including the single system ones) are behind on maintenance. The multi-system sets also seem to have some defects under 1.5 kV that can't be reproduced in the workshop in Duisburg, that can only test under 15 kV...