IBM (Halt) Closure & Possible Re-opening

[Esker-pades]

Could one not go to a one train per week situation? (Last train of the day on a Sundsy, for example.) Or, take the Newhaven Marine approach: Provide a replacement taxi to/from Branching when requested (knowing that very few people would actually ask for said taxi).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could one not go to a one train per week situation? (Last train of the day on a Sundsy, for example.) Or, take the Newhaven Marine approach: Provide a replacement taxi to/from Branching when requested (knowing that very few people would actually ask for said taxi).

This would be easy enough to do. Replacement taxi on demand once a day from the next nearby station (in that direction only; works for Denton and Reddish South). Oh, by the way, the Police have told us not to go there, so sorry, we can only taxi you as far as the road junction. Nobody would use it, box ticked, move on.

Or maybe mothballing (rather than fully closing) *actually does* make sense if it's likely to get houses built there soon enough.

 

[Esker-pades]

Could someone explain the difference between being mothballed and being fully closed?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could someone explain the difference between being mothballed and being fully closed?

If mothballed (like say Barlaston) it would be left in a situation where reopening would be feasible, i.e. not demolished.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So in the long term I think the station has potential. In the short term though mothballing seems eminently reasonable. It is a station with no public access, in the centre of a former industrial site about to undergo full scale demolition and redevelopment. There is no requirement for public access at present.

Noting what you say above regarding no current public access, could a comparison be drawn to the Redcar British Steel station site?

 

[Esker-pades]

If mothballed (like say Barlaston) it would be left in a situation where reopening would be feasible, i.e. not demolished.

Brilliant. Thanks very much. Would mothballing mean that there would have to be an alternative service provided (bus/taxi)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Brilliant. Thanks very much. Would mothballing mean that there would have to be an alternative service provided (bus/taxi)?

Typically it would be, even if that is arranging acceptance on an existing bus route as done for Barlaston. But there is no need for a replacement service here as there is no viable traffic of any kind other than enthusiasts doing it for a laugh. (Look at a map if you don't believe me - there's more potential traffic sources/sinks near Coombe Junction Halt, and that really is scraping the barrel of utterly pointless stations).

 

[Altnabreac]

This would be easy enough to do. Replacement taxi on demand once a day from the next nearby station (in that direction only; works for Denton and Reddish South). Oh, by the way, the Police have told us not to go there, so sorry, we can only taxi you as far as the road junction. Nobody would use it, box ticked, move on.

Or maybe mothballing (rather than fully closing) *actually does* make sense if it's likely to get houses built there soon enough.

I think the fact that there is no legal public access (except by walking down the Hole of Spango) complicates any replacement taxi / bus service option. As all the roads are private and the layout is likely to change significantly during an redevelopment / construction you can't offer a replacement taxi service as road vehicles will not actually have access to the station site during any construction period.

 

[Altnabreac]

Noting what you say above regarding no current public access, could a comparison be drawn to the Redcar British Steel station site?

Exactly. If the station remained unmothballed I could certainly see a period during redevelopment where anyone alighting from the train would not be permitted to leave the station site, or perhaps only permitted to cross the footbridge to the SE side of the railway line and then proceed up the rough hillside along the Hole of Spango to reach the Greenock Cut.

The Cut itself is a nice walking route but I can't see much demand for going up the hill from the IBM site in its current state without a footpath. A new Green Network walking route to the Greenock Cut is one of the proposals as part of the development framework and might increase demand a little but clearly the station needs development to justify it's continued existence, not just occasional walkers.

 

[Esker-pades]

I am at the station now.

There is legal access. The route from the station to the A78 still exists. There is a gate, but only on the road (one can use the pavement which is not gated).


All the buildings have been demolished. The fences that closed off part of the site where derelict buildings still stood have been removed. Therefore, it is possible to go from one entrance to the other without passing any fences/closed gates.

There were 2 other people there. One was a cyclist, the other some random bloke standing about in the car park.

 

[Altnabreac]

I am at the station now.

There is legal access. The route from the station to the A78 still exists. There is a gate, but only on the road (one can use the pavement which is not gated). View attachment 55631
View attachment 55634

All the buildings have been demolished. The fences that closed off part of the site where derelict buildings still stood have been removed. Therefore, it is possible to go from one entrance to the other without passing any fences/closed gates.

There were 2 other people there. One was a cyclist, the other some random bloke standing about in the car park.

But no legal access for a replacement bus or taxi service by the look of it as the roads are all gated off. If there was construction going on across the site then there wouldn't be an easy route in to the station except via the footbridge to the hill though I would imagine.

 

[Esker-pades]

But no legal access for a replacement bus or taxi service by the look of it as the roads are all gated off. If there was construction going on across the site then there wouldn't be an easy route in to the station except via the footbridge to the hill though I would imagine.

The simple thing for a bus/taxi to do would be to drop off in the layby by the entrance. Bus stops already exist along the A78 (there is a notice at the station which specifies one such stop as the rail replacement stop).

 

[Carntyne]

The simple thing for a bus/taxi to do would be to drop off in the layby by the entrance. Bus stops already exist along the A78 (there is a notice at the station which specifies one such stop as the rail replacement stop).

Who are you providing this replacement service for?

 

[Esker-pades]

Who are you providing this replacement service for?

You've missed the point. As this station is currently open, it has to have some kind of replacement transport during engineering works.
That is the location I have suggested for a replacement taxi for the period between now and when new houses are built.

 

[Esker-pades]

There are announcements at the station informing passengers that it will close from December the 9th.

 

[t_star2001uk]

I am at the station now.

There is legal access. The route from the station to the A78 still exists. There is a gate, but only on the road (one can use the pavement which is not gated). View attachment 55631
View attachment 55634

All the buildings have been demolished. The fences that closed off part of the site where derelict buildings still stood have been removed. Therefore, it is possible to go from one entrance to the other without passing any fences/closed gates.

There were 2 other people there. One was a cyclist, the other some random bloke standing about in the car park.

Just out of curiosity, what is written on the face of the sign next to the pavement that is being blocked by the large stones and what was written on the signs on the gates.

 

[Esker-pades]

"WARNING: THIS AREA IS PROTECTED BY CSM SECURITY"
"Please leave the site respectfully."
There are also signs about the site being for sale.

 

[najaB]

Ah, it's gone entirely? OK, in that case it makes sense as there will be no demand at all as it doesn't serve anything else.

Here's a recent not so recent image from Google Streetview: https://goo.gl/maps/KX5jGFQqMwF2

Edit: Got fooled again, the image was actually from 2014 not 2018.

 

[Esker-pades]

The whole site has been cleared. From today:

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/19/ibm_halt_halted_by_scotrail/

From The Register. Stations closure. It has been confirmed that this method of just withdrawal of services would allow reinstatement in the future, hence no formal closure.

Finally a platform for train puns: IBM Halt station derailed
Halt – who goes there? No one, from now on

As if its financial woes weren't bad enough, IBM is suffering the further indignity of having a Scottish rail operator halting services to a station named after everyone's favourite mainframe maker.

Scotrail has announced that IBM Halt station, a single platform stop on a sleepy country branch line running past Greenock, west of Glasgow, will no longer be served by its trains from 9 December.
"The last IBM staff at Spango Valley moved out in September 2016 and there is no other commercial activity there," reported local news site Inverclyde Now.

The little station was originally opened in 1978 to serve IBM's once-sprawling outpost in Greenock, Scotland. Once providing gainful employment for thousands of people, the site's long-term fate was sealed when IBM offloaded its System x business to Lenovo, with production rolling off to the Far East in due course.

Despite the eventual total withdrawal of IBM and later Lenovo from Greenock, the little railway stop where a train could, er, Halt continued to proudly bear Big Blue’s name, as a lasting memorial to IBM's once-monolithic presence in the area.

However, with no major local activity nearby, the station's usage went off the rails, with open-source figures revealing that patronage dropped from more than 100,000 annually to fewer than 6,000 over a five-year period.

A Scotrail spokesman told us: "Trains will no longer call at IBM Halt station from 9 December 2018. This has been agreed with Transport Scotland and key stakeholders and partners along the route. The closest alternative stations are Inverkip and Branchton. Our current timetable will remain largely unchanged and there will be time between the stations before and after IBM Halt that would allow trains to call again at the station should the IBM site be redeveloped."

Inverclyde Now also published a rather depressing photo feature a couple of years ago, showing the state of its former Spango Valley site – which is now seemingly ripe for the film crew of a post-apocalyptic sci-fi drama to set up shop. It could be a sleeper hit. Chu-chu-choose your words wisely and help us finish that train of thought in the comments section below. ®

 

[work-traveller]

I remember going there for a DOO inspection in 2006 - felt like an odd little station in those days and that was with the adjacent facility being more of less fully operational.

 

[ainsworth74]

Not for the public, anyway, the removal of 'for staff only' in the timetable doesn't change the legal status. Is this also true of Redcar British Steel?

Noting what you say above regarding no current public access, could a comparison be drawn to the Redcar British Steel station site?

British Steel Redcar has a note in the eNRT stating "For authorised access only to BSC Redcar" whilst the Northern timetable makes no mention of this. So it is similar to the situation with IBM but with a slight confusing factor in that the timetables contradict each other. I'll need to check the pictures I took on my visit but I don't recall there being any signs to that effect on or around the station and certainly no announcements were made to the effect by the guard.

My impression is that site security only take an interest if you leave the station itself and even then as long as you walk directly towards the nearby exit they're unlikely to say anything to you. Certainly during the time I was on the station (around half an hour or so) a pick-up truck drove by on a nearby bridge several times (and I wasn't exactly hiding!) and never approached me.

One difference, compared to the situation at IBM, is that British Steel Redcar was, I believe, funded by British Steel as part of the deal with British Rail to allow for the closure of the original alignment slight further out towards the coast via Warrenby and as a replacement for Warrenby Halt when they built their new blast furnace in the late 1970s. So, depending on how that was achieved, it's possible that there's a bit more too it in terms of the legalities around a possible closure or mothballing/withdrawal of service (it should also be noted that the May timetable change doubled the service from two trains to four per day for no apparent reason!).

 

[DarloRich]

From The Register. Stations closure. It has been confirmed that this method of just withdrawal of services would allow reinstatement in the future, hence no formal closure.

Sophistry, nothing more. Posters here are even more naive than i thought if they fall for that line!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sophistry, nothing more. Posters here are even more naive than i thought if they fall for that line!

So, if you call them on this they'll stop a Parly or put a taxi on demand on, both of which would be a waste of money.

 

[DarloRich]

So, if you call them on this they'll stop a Parly or put a taxi on demand on, both of which would be a waste of money.

Then close the station properly. Be honest: If the station is mothballed while the area is redeveloped ( and that could take years) how long will it take to reopen a semi derelict station and how much will it cost?

Money will not be spent in maintaining the station once "mothballed". You must know this.

 

[mmh]

Sophistry, nothing more. Posters here are even more naive than i thought if they fall for that line!

Why are you so adamant there's a hidden motive behind this?

Perhaps, as you say, I am naive but I really don't understand the furore this announcement has caused. In recent history I can recall a thread which complained that trains stopped at this station!

 

[mmh]

Then close the station properly. Be honest: If the station is mothballed while the area is redeveloped ( and that could take years) how long will it take to reopen a semi derelict station and how much will it cost?

Money will not be spent in maintaining the station once "mothballed". You must know this.

It's a single platform with no buildings. There's nothing to maintain or become derelict. Re-opening it would likely be little more than some new tarmac and some paint.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why are you so adamant there's a hidden motive behind this?

Perhaps, as you say, I am naive but I really don't understand the furore this announcement has caused. In recent history I can recall a thread which complained that trains stopped at this station!

Agreed.

I think Breich has adequately proven that ScotRail/the Scottish authorities are not interested in closing stations for a laugh.

 

[DarloRich]

Why are you so adamant there's a hidden motive behind this?

Perhaps, as you say, I am naive but I really don't understand the furore this announcement has caused. In recent history I can recall a thread which complained that trains stopped at this station!

there seems to be some idea that the station will simply stop having trains call there until such time as lots of lovely houses are built next door and people move in when, hey presto, the station reopens.

The "furore" is because there does not seem, externally, to have been any proper procedure used ot close, sorry "mothball" this station. This, potentially, sets a precedent for other TOCS to "mothball" a station they don't like. Using this precedent my line could simply have a train service withdrawn without consultation. Our new trains are late, why not avoid extended lease costs by "mothballing"?

It's a single platform with no buildings. There's nothing to maintain or become derelict. Re-opening it would likely be little more than some new tarmac and some paint.

Ok. You are naive then. Thanks for confirming.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The "furore" is because there does not seem, externally, to have been any proper procedure used ot close, sorry "mothball" this station. This, potentially, sets a precedent for other TOCS to "mothball" a station they don't like. Using this precedent my line could simply have a train service withdrawn without consultation. Our new trains are late, why not avoid extended lease costs by "mothballing"?

It's barely any different to them stopping one train per day at 5am (or some other useless time) there. Which is why I just don't see why this is causing furore in excess of a Parliamentary service.

It is orders of magnitude less stupid than Denton, Reddish South, Polesworth or whatever (which actually do serve places, or would if they could be bothered to serve them properly). It's probably even less stupid than Tees-side Airport.