Ian Yeowart brings back GNER!

[Daimler]

Ian Yeowart, who left the post of Managing Director of London-Sunderland open access operator Grand Central at the beginning of June, has come back to the railway with an ambitious bid for fresh open access services from new companies. Audaciously, one of these is entitled Great North Eastern Railway Company (GNER), the name of the Sea Containers subsidiary that used to be East Coast main line franchise holder.

The new GNER is proposing the introduction of four new services each day between London King¹s Cross and Sheffield/Huddersfield and four daily services between King¹s Cross and Grimsby/Cleethorpes. In addition GNER is proposing the introduction of an Œinter-city¹ service between Hull and Liverpool via the Calder Valley.

At the same time, a sister company, Great North Western Railway Company (GNWR), has submitted plans to the Office of Rail Regulation for a trio of new high speed services on the West Coast main line, which would provide new direct services between London Euston and Huddersfield/Leeds; Euston and Halifax/Bradford; and Euston and Carlisle via Barrow and the Cumbrian Coast.

ŒThe proposed services are designed to bring new direct high speed rail links to areas that have been either without such a link for many years, or have recently seen their services downgraded. In addition, they will introduce an element of on-track competition, bringing consumer and passenger benefits¹ says Mr Yeowart.

He continues: ŒThese applications by GNER and GNWR are being made at an early stage to allow full industry consultation to take place, and to ensure that the extra services can be delivered towards the end of the current Control Period (CP4) * which runs from 2009-2014.

Mr Yeowart says that Œcompetition has already been seen to work¹ on the East Coast main line, with open access services provided by Hull Trains and Grand Central competing against the franchised operator. ŒOn the West Coast, however, passengers have been unable to benefit in the same way due to protection from competition which the current franchisee, Virgin Trains, enjoys until 2011.¹ New hybrid diesel/electric rolling stock is planned for these services. Mr Yeowart says that the minimum lead time for the new rolling stock he intends to use is around three years: GNER and GNWR believe it is important that work on developing new services begins now.

With the West Coast franchise due to be re-let in 2012, the establishment of a new operator alongside a new or retained franchisee will bring important benefits to the route without the requirement of funding from the taxpayer¹.

GNER and GNWR are wholly-owned subsidiaries of Alliance Rail Holdings Ltd, of which Ian Yeowart is a director.

http://www.modern-railways.com/latestnews/?p=86

A route map of the two new companies: http://www.modern-railways.com/downloads/routemap.pdf

My question: Where on earth is 'Kings Langley Parkway'?

EDIT: Or rather, why 'Kings Langley Parkway' and not Watford Junction?

 

[Mojo]

Perhaps a new station or an enlarged carpark/renaming of Kings Langley station, which is underneath the M25.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Finally something for the Cumbrian Coast other than 1 - 3 carriages.
Although i live in the North East, I do not actually see any of the services coming or even stopping in the NE. Isn't it supposed to be: Great NORTH EASTERN Railway?

But it's nice to see Cumbria get something for a change (except the WCML)

 

[philjo]

My question: Where on earth is 'Kings Langley Parkway'?

Presumably a renaming of Kings Langley station which is adjacent to junction 20 of the M25

 

[Daimler]

Perhaps a new station or an enlarged carpark/renaming of Kings Langley station, which is underneath the M25.

Yes, but why not just stop at Watford? Kings Langley's a tiny place, and it's not like there's loads of room for a huge new carpark around the station, nor that there's really enough space between it, Watford Junction, and Apsley stations to build a whole new one - or the demand. Very odd!

Unless of course its proximity to the M25 is being seen as a way of 'selling' the new station - but Watford Junction isn't too hard to get to, in all honesty - there's even a spur off the M25 to get you near the town. I don't know - using the line regularly, I wouldn't have thought that Kings Langley would be an obvious place for a new interchange station!

Anyhow, I like the idea a lot - if Grand Central/WSMR are anything to go by, open access offers a superior level of service - and it'll allow travel on the WCML without using the Pendolinos (though, of course, I can't guarantee Mr Yeowart's new trains will be any better!). It's also very good to see places not currently linked to London directly getting a link. It's also nice to see a proper intercity transpennine service from Hull to Liverpool.

 

[Bittern]

They wouldn't be operating to Scotland?

 

[thefab444]

That map is crawling with spelling mistakes!

Hebdon Bridge
Alderly Edge
Haifax

I also find the random adding of "Parkway" to stations such as Guide Bridge, Thorne South, Kings Langley and Newton-le-Willows rather puzzling.

 

[Aictos]

I like the idea of Leeds being accessed from Euston but wouldn't the ECML be the faster choice?

Still, if it provides more travel opportunities then who am I to stand in the way of progress.

 

[Bittern]

I wonder if they'll use the iconic Dark Blue and Orange with Gold Letters livery.

 

[Swift-Deere]

Although i live in the North East, I do not actually see any of the services coming or even stopping in the NE. Isn't it supposed to be: Great NORTH EASTERN Railway?
(except the WCML)

Yorkshire in the north-East and it stops there

Also why is Liverpool and St Helens only served by north Eastern trains when there in the North West, i think they should ditch the idea of two different names and just call it the GNR (Great Northern Railway)

 

[jopsuk]

Remember before you get too excited that this is just a proposal- there's been quite a few proposed open-access operators have barely got past this stage. Just because he's had past success, does not guarantee future success. Still got to get the track access approved, for a start.

It'll be interesting to see where this idea goes, anyway. Certainly interesting that the proposal seems to involve new rolling stock from the start- with it being a resurrection of the proposed Chinese "Polaris" units that GC were supposed to be getting. Were the original GC ones supposed to be hybrids too (would make sense on their route)?
As for livery- If the artist's impression is anything to go by, the GNER units may well be Green. Even more traditional...

 

[ivanhoe]

I cannot see any of the routes getting off the ground. Yet more routes to London which will eat into the existing revenue streams. Whilst I have sympathy with Cumbrian Passengers, surely Whitehaven Maryport and Workington would be best served with better connections to meet the Carlisle trains to London & Scotland

 

[Donny Dave]

Quite an ambitious plan there, and also very well joined up.

Worth noting that he isn't trying to comepete with GC either.

 

[Demps]

whilst i have sympathy with cumbrian passengers, surely whitehaven maryport and workington would be best served with better connections to meet the carlisle trains to london & scotland

100% But i think the whole route would need revamping, there is no doubt about that, its pretty bad.

 

[generalvegitable]

if only they would stop at MK instead of kings langley

 

[jopsuk]

if only they would stop at MK instead of kings langley

I'd imagine they would like to, but they've probably assessed the probability of Virgin allowing them to do, and concluded they've got two hopes- Bob Hope and No Hope. Bob Hope's dead...

 

[37401]

what locos will be used for GNER and GNWR?

I hope GNWR gets off the ground, would be nice to have another option for London
we have the cheap option that takes forever or the rip off option but it gets you there

 

[MCR247]

They want to order new stock

 

[37401]

They want to order new stock

:boo: lol, dont they all say that? I hope we get some LHCS on the WCML again, 86/7 bash Nuneaton-Tamworth springs to mind

 

[tbtc]

what locos will be used for GNER and GNWR?

Ones pulled by flying pigs?

We're talking about a guy who has no paths, no stock and is planning on running some very strange services, there's really little to justify any of these routes, if the Government wants to encourage big companies to run franchises (and not splinter the railway into lots of diddy wee operators)

 

[The Planner]

Well unless the rolling stock can tilt and do 125mph, the likelihood of fast line paths down the WCML is minimal.

Id also imagine that Kings Langley has been chosen as Watford Jn would fall under the good old moderation of competition trump card, even if Virgin dont regain the franchise in 2012. I also can't imagine LM being best pleased with them scouting for Crewe, Tamworth and Nuneaton.

 

[37401]

Ones pulled by flying pigs?

Hellfire! "Pride of pork scratchings" still req.

 

[43106]

Kings Cross to Cleethorpes via Doncaster and Scunthorpe is new - it normally goes via Newark & Lincoln. I don't like Kings Cross to Sheffield via Retford, but Kings Cross - Grantham - Nottingham - Sheffield - Huddersfield - Halifax might be better.
Euston - Cumbria Line? Why? I can't see the justification in that.

 

[jopsuk]

what locos will be used for GNER and GNWR?

Read the article- he's proposing the Chinese "Polaris" units that he'd long proposed for Grand Central, though they've mutated into hybrid power versions now.

Which is worrying, really, as China still relies, for high-speed trains, on partnerships with foreign countries. The CRH1 was built with Bombardier based on this Swedish train, the CRH2 is based on the E2 Shinkansen from Kawasaki, the CRH3 on the Siemens Velaro (export version of the ICE3) and the CRH5 is a non-tilting Italian Pendalino. The one indigenous attempt to design a High Speed train wasn't a success.

So who the hell's designed this "Polaris"?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I also find the random adding of "Parkway" to stations such as Guide Bridge, Thorne South, Kings Langley and Newton-le-Willows rather puzzling.

Lets not forget Eccles, not much there to be a 'Parkway' for, the Trafford Centre? the M602? the Metrolink?

Perhaps renaming stations with 'Parkway' added is a new fad thing, surely a 2 minute walk to the thing it is named after isn't far enough for a 'Parkway' designation. More of a 'Park & Ride' for Manchester really.

.... I don't like Kings Cross to Sheffield via Retford - Kings Cross - Grantham - Nottingham - Sheffield - Huddersfield - Halifax might be better....

I suspect the reasoning for the Retford route is that atleast five trains (three TOCs) already use the Chesterfield-Sheffield section of the line each way each hour (XC x2, EMT x2, Northern) and thats before you add in the Hope Valley line services to/from Sheffield.

 

[gordonthemoron]

whatever Ian Yeowart is on,I want some

 

[WillPS]

Sheffield on the ECML sounds like a good idea to me. Adds some competition for East Midlands Trains which can only be a good thing, and is a more attractive option than the current Pacer to Doncaster/Retford/Wakefield and change.

 

[kelladam96]

polaris demus are bi-mode, tilting trains

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Read the article- he's proposing the Chinese "Polaris" units that he'd long proposed for Grand Central, though they've mutated into hybrid power versions now.

Which is worrying, really, as China still relies, for high-speed trains, on partnerships with foreign countries. The CRH1 was built with Bombardier based on this Swedish train, the CRH2 is based on the E2 Shinkansen from Kawasaki, the CRH3 on the Siemens Velaro (export version of the ICE3) and the CRH5 is a non-tilting Italian Pendalino. The one indigenous attempt to design a High Speed train wasn't a success.

So who the hell's designed this "Polaris"?

The concept design for the Polaris train sets has been carried out by a UK team, mainly consisting of the teams at Transys Projects Limited in Birmingham and Schoenemann Design in Belper. It is intended that the majority of the design work for the trains will be carried out in the UK, with some Chinese involvement, mainly to ensure that what is designed can be manufactured. During manufacturing and testing, the British team will reciprocate and spend large amounts of their time in China.

In defence of the Chinese manufacturers, it is not quite accurate to say that indigenous (there have been more than one) attempts to design a High Speed train have been unsuccessful. The Minister of Railways made a (very unpopular) policy decision to encourage foreign builders into China and the factories were instructed to cease work on their own development projects. In actual fact, though the Siemens and Kawasaki products have worked well, the Alstim TGVs were a disaster and have also been dropped.

The same policy has been adopted to a certain extent with locos, where the 6500 hp diesel electric loco, developed by CSR Ziyang, using a Caterpillar 3616 engine, was dropped in favour of a GE / CSR JV product, despite the CSR product being very successful during trials, with NO technical failures in 200,000 km running!

 

[Oliver]

Sheffield on the ECML sounds like a good idea to me. Adds some competition for East Midlands Trains which can only be a good thing, and is a more attractive option than the current Pacer to Doncaster/Retford/Wakefield and change.

Back in the mid-60's the fastest train from London to Sheffield was the Deltic-hauled "West Riding" which detached three coaches at Retford and took them round to Sheffield. Its Hitchin to Retford leg was the fastest start-to-stop in UK for a while.