I WON!! - TFL agreed to withdraw case (see final post)

[illovecaesar]

Hi all,

In May, I (TH) was issued a penalty fine for evading a TFL bus fare (I thought my contactless had gone through, it hadn’t). I gave the ticket inspector my details. Since then, I had not heard back. However, out of pure coincidence, my sister (FH) who does not live at my address, asked me to open correspondence she was expecting. Having done so, I realised that a Single Justice Procedure had been issued under her name. A decade ago, she had committed a fare evading offence, which was cited under the SJP. All other contact details - including my DOB and the correct address was issued. I only had one day to left to reply to the SJP, and in my panic, I pleaded Guilty but outlined the situation and stated I was happy to pay the necessary fine, though I wish my sister not to be implicated as she was not responsible for the evasion. What I believe happened was during the admin process of issuing a fine, my name (which sounds a lot like my sisters) was confused with my sisters, who was already on the TFL system. My sister has now been summoned to Magistrate Court (though again all other details such as DoB are associated with me), with details saying the case is not suitable to be dealt with under the single justice procedure. My sister is very ill, has two children, and lives very far from me in London. She will not be able to attend the court date - regardless, I’m the individual who committed the evasion. It is crazy that a set of simple mistakes have led to this point - I am severely stressed, my mental health is suffering, and I just want this over with. Can someone point me as to if this will be possible to settle out of Court, without implicating my sister - again, I’m happy to pay the necessary fines etc. I’d appreciate any help, genuinely thanks in advance for anything you can offer.

 

[Pushpit]

If she has been summoned, in her name, the law requires her to show up in court. So your two options are to try to convinced the Clerk of the Court about the mistake, or to convince TfL to restart the paperwork in your name. I suspect if you turn up for the appointed case and explain the situation to the TfL lawyer there, with appropriate ID and evidence, then they may defer and re-present the case in your name. However the courts will be very wary of impersonation related issues, they will have seen it all before. A critical issue may be if you signed the guilty SJP plea in her name rather than correct the paperwork.

[Just to clarify to others who were confused about this, SJP is under 10 years old, TfL's database goes back further in time it would appear].

 

[illovecaesar]

If she has been summoned, in her name, the law requires her to show up in court. So your two options are to try to convinced the Clerk of the Court about the mistake, or to convince TfL to restart the paperwork in your name. I suspect if you turn up for the appointed case and explain the situation to the TfL lawyer there, with appropriate ID and evidence, then they may defer and re-present the case in your name. However the courts will be very wary of impersonation related issues, they will have seen it all before. A critical issue may be if you signed the guilty SJP plea in her name rather than correct the paperwork.

[Just to clarify to others who were confused about this, SJP is under 10 years old, TfL's database goes back further in time it would appear].

Hi, thank you so much for the quick reply. I’ve been in contact with the IAP at TFL and contacted the SJP team at HMT with all this information. I understand of course the impersonation issue - I provided all other correct details and in the plea I put down my name very explicitly as the individual pleading guilty. I will continue trying to get TFL to restart the paperwork in my name and to convince the Court of the Clerk of this mistake. Do you know how I’d be able to contact the Clerk please? I’m obviously really upset as I provided the right details, but this just seems to have slipped out of my control. I have used TFL for a decade - paying my fare every single time. It’s really sad that an innocent mistake has escalated like this, but thank you for your reply, you’ve really helped my mental state.

 

[skyhigh]

I pleaded Guilty but outlined the situation

What exactly did you write on the form?

Did you make it clear you were completing it as yourself? Did you sign it in your name?

 

[illovecaesar]

What exactly did you write on the form?

Did you make it clear you were completing it as yourself? Did you sign it in your name?

Yes I did - I explicitly stated that the plea name was incorrect - I put down my name when guided to. Additionally, In the mitigating circumstances, I outlined that I was responsible not my sister. I’ll be requesting my plea response as I cannot locate that now, but I numerously stated that I was responsible, not my sister.

 

[Pushpit]

Hi, thank you so much for the quick reply. I’ve been in contact with the IAP at TFL and contacted the SJP team at HMT with all this information. I understand of course the impersonation issue - I provided all other correct details and in the plea I put down my name very explicitly as the individual pleading guilty. I will continue trying to get TFL to restart the paperwork in my name and to convince the Court of the Clerk of this mistake. Do you know how I’d be able to contact the Clerk please? I’m obviously really upset as I provided the right details, but this just seems to have slipped out of my control. I have used TFL for a decade - paying my fare every single time. It’s really sad that an innocent mistake has escalated like this, but thank you for your reply, you’ve really helped my mental state.

Search by name or address - Find a Court or Tribunal - GOV.UK

Use the court's name or address to find a court or tribunal in England or Wales

www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk

The above will help get you the contact details. But if TfL is engaged with your communications it is actually in their best interests to get the paperwork right. Otherwise your sister can turn up and say "this has nothing to do with me, I was out doing X on the day in question" and the case will fall flat. If you signed the paperwork with your name, then TfL can't use your sister's name in proceedings.

 

[illovecaesar]

Search by name or address - Find a Court or Tribunal - GOV.UK

Use the court's name or address to find a court or tribunal in England or Wales

www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk

The above will help get you the contact details. But if TfL is engaged with your communications it is actually in their best interests to get the paperwork right. Otherwise your sister can turn up and say "this has nothing to do with me, I was out doing X on the day in question" and the case will fall flat. If you signed the paperwork with your name, then TfL can't use your sister's name in proceedings.

You’re a life saver - the fact that people like you exist really helps restore my confidence in the world - even when I’m feeling super low at this moment. Genuinely, you cannot imagine how much I needed this - thank you so much. Have a great day x

 

[Pushpit]

You’re a life saver - the fact that people like you exist really helps restore my confidence in the world - even when I’m feeling super low at this moment. Genuinely, you cannot imagine how much I needed this - thank you so much. Have a great day x

I can imagine it's very stressful but firstly it's not a serious crime by any means; secondly TfL seems to have made the mistakes here rather than you; thirdly TfL take 20,000 people a year through this process, it's like a machine for them.

 

[illovecaesar]

I am so thrilled - please see my post history to see what I’ve been going through. I’m making this post to hopefully help even one other person - this has been the biggest mental tribulation of my life.

In May, I thought I had tapped my contactless on the bus. An inspector came on and I then realised it had not gone through - and I was issued a ticket, and provided my name, DOB, and address. He did not check my ID, and let me go without double checking my details.

Months and months went on, and I heard nothing. As I’ve never been issued a fine before, it slipped my mind and I thought nothing of it. However, in August, my sister who does not live at my address, and has a different DOB to me (though we do have a similar sounding name to me and she herself had been convicted of a fare evasion in 2014), asked me to open correspondence in her name. It was at this point, I realised that a Single Justice Procedure notice had been issued in her name - and it was the last day to respond to the case. The notice cited my sisters previous convictions.

In my panic, I replied guilty to the SJP, though in the mitigating circumstances - I outlined that I had honestly given my name, as verified by the other true details - such as the correct DOB and address. The reason I had not opened the previous fare letters was due to it being incorrectly addressed to my sister. I explained that I took full responsibility for the evasion, and my sister was innocent and I did not wish for her to be implicated.
At this point, I was plenty naive and did not understand what guilty meant. I am beyond glad I put in those mitigating circumstances - as they may have saved my life. A week later, another letter came under my sisters name - stating that she (or rather I) have been summoned to the magistrates court as my case was not simple enough to be dealt with via my online response.

At this point, the thought of going to court was so mentally overwhelming and I realised I would likely be given a criminal conviction - I honestly did have s**icdal thoughts; I work in a regulated industry, I have worked so so hard in life to get to where I am and I thought about how all that would be taken away from me due to an admin error out of my control over a £1.85 fare.

I tried to appeal to TFL by myself - (via the IAP mailbox) outlining my situation and the confusion with my sisters name on the issued letters. This felt onto deaf ears, and I was told to just go to court and get the case re-opened in my sisters name.

I tried to get on with life, and just tried to come to terms that the life I once envisioned for myself would be gone by the Time of my magistrate court date. However, I started to read cases on here, and the amount of people willing to give up the free time to advise and help others against the bureaucratic unforgiving machine that is the railway companies was awe-inspiring, and hence it’s the reason I’m making this post first thing after hearing back from TFL.

I decided I would get legal representation, and see if I could settle out of Court. I contacted a range of lawyers - their quotes were not cheap, but a criminal conviction is far more expensive. I’m so so lucky to be in the position where I could afford one, having used a big portion of my savings to seek help. Please PM or comment if you would like the name of the solicitor firm I used.

My initial meeting with the lawyer was late September, and I was asked to explain my circumstances and outline what a conviction would mean for me and how this would go against public interest. My lawyer sent the email last week - and we heard back today. In the initial response, TFL actually referred to me as he/Sir - despite the lawyers letter making it clear I was a woman - something very ironic about my identify being mistaken by TFL twice. In the end, the lawyer clarified a number of points - and I heard back around 30 minutes ago that TFL have decided to drop this matter by way of warning. They have kept a record of this for the next 12 months (though I’ve never ever intentionally tried to skip a fare - just will be extra hawkish waiting for the green light to go off when paying my fare!).

I just want to say here, please do not lose hope. A horrible thing during the process is how I was treated by TFL, and even my lawyer to begin with - who presupposed me as intentional about the fare evasion. TFL did not take the time to read through my lawyers letter, until he pushed back - as I know they assumed me guilty. In fact, the contact at TFL stated that they still believe I gave the false name - which they have absolute no proof of, and I believe they should have the burden to prove. If im unfortunate enough to have any more interactions, I will be recording from beginning to start.

Ultimately, this has been one of the most trying times of my life. My work life has suffered, my personal life has suffered, I have put so much resource behind this over a minor admin mistake. I now have anxiety attacks using public transport sometime. Even still - I know how important it is to see a success story in the midst of all these queries, so here is mine. Please don’t lose hope, if you believe you have a convincing case, keep going!!! finally, tfl - you are the absolute worse!

Happy to answer any questions, and provide support where I can. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

[Eyersey468]

I am so thrilled - please see my post history to see what I’ve been going through. I’m making this post to hopefully help even one other person - this has been the biggest mental tribulation of my life.

In May, I thought I had tapped my contactless on the bus. An inspector came on and I then realised it had not gone through - and I was issued a ticket, and provided my name, DOB, and address. He did not check my ID, and let me go without double checking my details.

Months and months went on, and I heard nothing. As I’ve never been issued a fine before, it slipped my mind and I thought nothing of it. However, in August, my sister who does not live at my address, and has a different DOB to me (though we do have a similar sounding name to me and she herself had been convicted of a fare evasion in 2014), asked me to open correspondence in her name. It was at this point, I realised that a Single Justice Procedure notice had been issued in her name - and it was the last day to respond to the case. The notice cited my sisters previous convictions.

In my panic, I replied guilty to the SJP, though in the mitigating circumstances - I outlined that I had honestly given my name, as verified by the other true details - such as the correct DOB and address. The reason I had not opened the previous fare letters was due to it being incorrectly addressed to my sister. I explained that I took full responsibility for the evasion, and my sister was innocent and I did not wish for her to be implicated.
At this point, I was plenty naive and did not understand what guilty meant. I am beyond glad I put in those mitigating circumstances - as they may have saved my life. A week later, another letter came under my sisters name - stating that she (or rather I) have been summoned to the magistrates court as my case was not simple enough to be dealt with via my online response.

At this point, the thought of going to court was so mentally overwhelming and I realised I would likely be given a criminal conviction - I honestly did have s**icdal thoughts; I work in a regulated industry, I have worked so so hard in life to get to where I am and I thought about how all that would be taken away from me due to an admin error out of my control over a £1.85 fare.

I tried to appeal to TFL by myself - (via the IAP mailbox) outlining my situation and the confusion with my sisters name on the issued letters. This felt onto deaf ears, and I was told to just go to court and get the case re-opened in my sisters name.

I tried to get on with life, and just tried to come to terms that the life I once envisioned for myself would be gone by the Time of my magistrate court date. However, I started to read cases on here, and the amount of people willing to give up the free time to advise and help others against the bureaucratic unforgiving machine that is the railway companies was awe-inspiring, and hence it’s the reason I’m making this post first thing after hearing back from TFL.

I decided I would get legal representation, and see if I could settle out of Court. I contacted a range of lawyers - their quotes were not cheap, but a criminal conviction is far more expensive. I’m so so lucky to be in the position where I could afford one, having used a big portion of my savings to seek help. Please PM or comment if you would like the name of the solicitor firm I used.

My initial meeting with the lawyer was late September, and I was asked to explain my circumstances and outline what a conviction would mean for me and how this would go against public interest. My lawyer sent the email last week - and we heard back today. In the initial response, TFL actually referred to me as he/Sir - despite the lawyers letter making it clear I was a woman - something very ironic about my identify being mistaken by TFL twice. In the end, the lawyer clarified a number of points - and I heard back around 30 minutes ago that TFL have decided to drop this matter by way of warning. They have kept a record of this for the next 12 months (though I’ve never ever intentionally tried to skip a fare - just will be extra hawkish waiting for the green light to go off when paying my fare!).

I just want to say here, please do not lose hope. A horrible thing during the process is how I was treated by TFL, and even my lawyer to begin with - who presupposed me as intentional about the fare evasion. TFL did not take the time to read through my lawyers letter, until he pushed back - as I know they assumed me guilty. In fact, the contact at TFL stated that they still believe I gave the false name - which they have absolute no proof of, and I believe they should have the burden to prove. If im unfortunate enough to have any more interactions, I will be recording from beginning to start.

Ultimately, this has been one of the most trying times of my life. My work life has suffered, my personal life has suffered, I have put so much resource behind this over a minor admin mistake. I now have anxiety attacks using public transport sometime. Even still - I know how important it is to see a success story in the midst of all these queries, so here is mine. Please don’t lose hope, if you believe you have a convincing case, keep going!!! finally, tfl - you are the absolute worse!

Happy to answer any questions, and provide support where I can. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Glad to hear you had a good outcome

 

[Pushpit]

Yes, TfL approach to fare evasion strikes me as unethical and counter-productive. I'm glad you managed to resolve the issue, and thank you for reporting back on your experience - not everyone does that unfortunately.

 

[Blinkbonny]

That is an amazing story, ilc. So glad you've got it sorted - but at what a cost to you!

 

[some bloke]

I thought my contactless had gone through, it hadn’t

I work in a regulated industry, I have worked so so hard in life to get to where I am and I thought about how all that would be taken away from me

just tried to come to terms that the life I once envisioned for myself would be gone

The human mind can come up with all sorts of ideas that don't align with reality.

Please bear in mind for the future that thoughts of catastrophe can just be the result of "catastrophising", especially if you've been having depressive thoughts!

If you check your employment contract and regulator's website, you may reassure yourself about the likely consequences this kind of mistake would have, ie basically nothing or minimal. Employers can't generally afford to lose people for tiny mistakes even if they wanted to. They are probably human too!

 

[Haywain]

You have got a good outcome, but TfL did not "settle out of court", they issued a warning. That's actually a better result but to suggest they settled is misleading.

 

[WesternLancer]

I am so thrilled - please see my post history to see what I’ve been going through. I’m making this post to hopefully help even one other person - this has been the biggest mental tribulation of my life.

In May, I thought I had tapped my contactless on the bus. An inspector came on and I then realised it had not gone through - and I was issued a ticket, and provided my name, DOB, and address. He did not check my ID, and let me go without double checking my details.

Months and months went on, and I heard nothing. As I’ve never been issued a fine before, it slipped my mind and I thought nothing of it. However, in August, my sister who does not live at my address, and has a different DOB to me (though we do have a similar sounding name to me and she herself had been convicted of a fare evasion in 2014), asked me to open correspondence in her name. It was at this point, I realised that a Single Justice Procedure notice had been issued in her name - and it was the last day to respond to the case. The notice cited my sisters previous convictions.

In my panic, I replied guilty to the SJP, though in the mitigating circumstances - I outlined that I had honestly given my name, as verified by the other true details - such as the correct DOB and address. The reason I had not opened the previous fare letters was due to it being incorrectly addressed to my sister. I explained that I took full responsibility for the evasion, and my sister was innocent and I did not wish for her to be implicated.
At this point, I was plenty naive and did not understand what guilty meant. I am beyond glad I put in those mitigating circumstances - as they may have saved my life. A week later, another letter came under my sisters name - stating that she (or rather I) have been summoned to the magistrates court as my case was not simple enough to be dealt with via my online response.

At this point, the thought of going to court was so mentally overwhelming and I realised I would likely be given a criminal conviction - I honestly did have s**icdal thoughts; I work in a regulated industry, I have worked so so hard in life to get to where I am and I thought about how all that would be taken away from me due to an admin error out of my control over a £1.85 fare.

I tried to appeal to TFL by myself - (via the IAP mailbox) outlining my situation and the confusion with my sisters name on the issued letters. This felt onto deaf ears, and I was told to just go to court and get the case re-opened in my sisters name.

I tried to get on with life, and just tried to come to terms that the life I once envisioned for myself would be gone by the Time of my magistrate court date. However, I started to read cases on here, and the amount of people willing to give up the free time to advise and help others against the bureaucratic unforgiving machine that is the railway companies was awe-inspiring, and hence it’s the reason I’m making this post first thing after hearing back from TFL.

I decided I would get legal representation, and see if I could settle out of Court. I contacted a range of lawyers - their quotes were not cheap, but a criminal conviction is far more expensive. I’m so so lucky to be in the position where I could afford one, having used a big portion of my savings to seek help. Please PM or comment if you would like the name of the solicitor firm I used.

My initial meeting with the lawyer was late September, and I was asked to explain my circumstances and outline what a conviction would mean for me and how this would go against public interest. My lawyer sent the email last week - and we heard back today. In the initial response, TFL actually referred to me as he/Sir - despite the lawyers letter making it clear I was a woman - something very ironic about my identify being mistaken by TFL twice. In the end, the lawyer clarified a number of points - and I heard back around 30 minutes ago that TFL have decided to drop this matter by way of warning. They have kept a record of this for the next 12 months (though I’ve never ever intentionally tried to skip a fare - just will be extra hawkish waiting for the green light to go off when paying my fare!).

I just want to say here, please do not lose hope. A horrible thing during the process is how I was treated by TFL, and even my lawyer to begin with - who presupposed me as intentional about the fare evasion. TFL did not take the time to read through my lawyers letter, until he pushed back - as I know they assumed me guilty. In fact, the contact at TFL stated that they still believe I gave the false name - which they have absolute no proof of, and I believe they should have the burden to prove. If im unfortunate enough to have any more interactions, I will be recording from beginning to start.

Ultimately, this has been one of the most trying times of my life. My work life has suffered, my personal life has suffered, I have put so much resource behind this over a minor admin mistake. I now have anxiety attacks using public transport sometime. Even still - I know how important it is to see a success story in the midst of all these queries, so here is mine. Please don’t lose hope, if you believe you have a convincing case, keep going!!! finally, tfl - you are the absolute worse!

Happy to answer any questions, and provide support where I can. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Helpful info in your post for others in future I think. Thanks for posting a detailed outline of what happened.

 

[thejuggler]

All down to the wheels of justice getting a detail wrong. Anout ten years ago we suffered similar when someone somewhere entered our address against the name of someone convicted of a crime (The problem of modern IT systems and house numbers which also contain letters).

Despite advising the court on many occasions we had knocks on the door numerous times (usually just as we arrived home so someone was waiting outside the house), culminating in a high court bailiff visit, thankfully when we were out and a phone call with them eventually sorted the issue.

As the OP experienced this becomes very stressful for all concerned and TFL probably dropped it to avoid being spanked in Court when the full details of their maldaministration came to light.

 

[nanstallon]

This all shows how the system is disproportionate and weighted against the individual. The only answer is for private prosecutions by big organisations (such as the Post Office as well as railway and bus companies) to be stopped. When prosecutions go through the Crown Prosecution Service they have to consider issues of public interest and proportionality.

 

[island]

This all shows how the system is disproportionate and weighted against the individual. The only answer is for private prosecutions by big organisations (such as the Post Office as well as railway and bus companies) to be stopped. When prosecutions go through the Crown Prosecution Service they have to consider issues of public interest and proportionality.

TfL is also a public entity. What would moving prosecutions from one public entity to another achieve, in your opinion?

 

[nanstallon]

TfL is also a public entity. What would moving prosecutions from one public entity to another achieve, in your opinion?

As I have already said, the CPS has to consider public interest and proportionality. OK, TfL is a public entity, and what I meant by 'private prosecutions' was non-CPS prosecutions. In the interests of fairness, all prosecutions should go through the CPS. This would ensure a more professional approach to prosecutions, including proper adherence to the rules about disclosure of material that could assist the defence.

 

[Surreytraveller]

How would you get a court summons? Surely if you don't tap your contactless card, you just get a maximum fare charged on your credit card?

 

[Doctor Fegg]

TfL is also a public entity. What would moving prosecutions from one public entity to another achieve, in your opinion?

I kind of think that the entity with “Transport” in its name probably has more relevant experience in running a transport service, and the one with “Prosecution” in its name probably knows more about bringing prosecutions.