I wasted £8 today

[lj9090]

mind you it also used to be quite common then to see blocks on a stations large and small, something I also can't recall seeing for some years now the RPI has been replaced by an electronic barrier at larger ones.

Try Brockenhurst at the beginning of each term Though you're quite right, haven't seen them elsewhere for a while now.

 

[wintonian]

Try Brockenhurst at the beginning of each term Though you're quite right, haven't seen them elsewhere for a while now.

As I remember it from my college days they used to leave it until at least a couple of weeks into the term before doing a block on plt 1/2, never saw them on the other side but then most of us did come from the Bournemouth direction.

 

[D6975]

Back in NSE days, they used to have 'Hit Squads' of revenue protection people who would blitz selected services. Do the TOCS still do this? I've not seen it happen on any of my recent travels.

 

[lj9090]

As I remember it from my college days they used to leave it until at least a couple of weeks into the term before doing a block on plt 1/2, never saw them on the other side but then most of us did come from the Bournemouth direction.

It still waits till a couple of weeks in. Seen them once on the other side, during the New Forest Show which itself was in the middle of the Olympics when they stepped up quite a bit anyway. It's not really the best station for this; coming down the stairs as I was it wasn't obvious they were there and I breezed right past them before heading back after they shouted out to see a ticket.

Surprised they don't target New Milton and Christchurch like they used to. 15 or so years back when me and my friends used to chance buying on the train we stopped doing this pretty much as soon as we got caught a few times at the exits. Still get plenty today buying tickets on the train probably trying out the exact same trick so it's just as prevalent today.

 

[wintonian]

It still waits till a couple of weeks in. Seen them once on the other side, during the New Forest Show which itself was in the middle of the Olympics when they stepped up quite a bit anyway. It's not really the best station for this; coming down the stairs as I was it wasn't obvious they were there and I breezed right past them before heading back after they shouted out to see a ticket.

Surprised they don't target New Milton and Christchurch like they used to. 15 or so years back when me and my friends used to chance buying on the train we stopped doing this pretty much as soon as we got caught a few times at the exits. Still get plenty today buying tickets on the train probably trying out the exact same trick so it's just as prevalent today.

Yep, people were (are) always bunking the train from Milton to Christchurch/ Sway/ Hinton et al.

The RPI's that used to do the blocks then were quite friendly as I recall.

Revenue protection seemed much more useful and visible like that.

 

[ichabod05]

It's not really the best station for this; coming down the stairs as I was it wasn't obvious they were there and I breezed right past them before heading back after they shouted out to see a ticket.

Best way to do it, I think! If you can't see them very easily, and by the time you do see them, it's too late, then the sting operation is a success!

I remember a few months ago there being ticket checks at Hither Green, where there are two exits. Most people saw the RPIs clustered around the exit they'd usually take, and panicked, heading for the other one instead which involves going over a bridge. But the RPIs were sneakily waiting at the end of the bridge too, each one of them with a nice handful of £20 notes from penalty fares!

 

[island]

What was the guard doing the whole time?

If the answer is "I don't know" then you don't know tickets were not checked at all .... unless you had a friend in every carriage of the train?

Indeed. I once travelled EDB-KGX and there was no check, but each of the times I went to the buffet the guard was UPFNing different people!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Back in NSE days, they used to have 'Hit Squads' of revenue protection people who would blitz selected services. Do the TOCS still do this? I've not seen it happen on any of my recent travels.

Here in Southeastern land they camp in DFD and GNH, where there seems to be a steady stream of passengers arriving and wondering why the ticket gates don't have Oyster pads. That'll be £20 please.

Then they show up about once a year at each of the stations on the Dartford loop and on the odd evening up train.

 

[krisk]

If there was a higher financial detterent it would put a stop to this. Metrolink jumping from £20 to £100 is a start

 

[neilmc]

If there was a higher financial detterent it would put a stop to this. Metrolink jumping from £20 to £100 is a start

Ah well that would explain the hordes of yellow jackets around the city centre Metrolink lines today, a single cop for £100 would cover the cost of paying a minimum-wage contractor for the whole day.

This is more like the European model where the penalty for non-payment of fare is quite a large multiple of the ticket cost, except that the ticket cost in other countries' metros and trams is usually a fraction of the cost of using the Metrolink.

 

[transmanche]

This is more like the European model where the penalty for non-payment of fare is quite a large multiple of the ticket cost, except that the ticket cost in other countries' metros and trams is usually a fraction of the cost of using the Metrolink.

It's £80 on TfL now - reduced to £40 if paid within 21 days. (And that's the same on bus/tube/train/tram/light rail/cable car.)

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Let us say a busy late evening service appears to have little return for the number of passengers who use it so a random ticket check is made one evening. Numerous people are collared and a fair amount of revenue is obtained. It now seems worthwhile to do a regular check on that service. Those who used that service without buying a ticket realise it is being checked and either don't travel or use an alternative. The revenue collected by the ticket checks drops and it is no longer viable to operate the checks on that service. Word gets round that the checks have stopped and those who used the service without buying a ticket start to use it again.

A busy late evening service appears to have little return for the number of passengers who use it...........

 

[Eagle]

So somewhat like this graph I just found on Wikipedia?

 

[Clip]

So somewhat like this graph I just found on Wikipedia?

Good graph that. I like it.

 

[Oswyntail]

Let us say a busy late evening service appears to have little return for the number of passengers who use it so a random ticket check is made one evening. Numerous people are collared and a fair amount of revenue is obtained. It now seems worthwhile to do a regular check on that service. Those who used that service without buying a ticket realise it is being checked and either don't travel or use an alternative. The revenue collected by the ticket checks drops and it is no longer viable to operate the checks on that service. Word gets round that the checks have stopped and those who used the service without buying a ticket start to use it again.

A busy late evening service appears to have little return for the number of passengers who use it...........

The flaw is the regularity of the check. Make it random, keep the mind of the cheat uncertain, and you will deter all but the hardened crooks.

 

[Flamingo]

Let us say a busy late evening service appears to have little return for the number of passengers who use it so a random ticket check is made one evening. Numerous people are collared and a fair amount of revenue is obtained. It now seems worthwhile to do a regular check on that service. Those who used that service without buying a ticket realise it is being checked and either don't travel or use an alternative. The revenue collected by the ticket checks drops and it is no longer viable to operate the checks on that service. Word gets round that the checks have stopped and those who used the service without buying a ticket start to use it again.

A busy late evening service appears to have little return for the number of passengers who use it...........

It depends on how often the management changes, as it's a new manager who will review the takings and decide "Hey, this train needs ...". Once they have taken the decision, they won't revisit it, as it might be interpreted as they got it wrong the first time.

 

[Tibbs]

It's £80 on TfL now - reduced to £40 if paid within 21 days. (And that's the same on bus/tube/train/tram/light rail/cable car.)

Which is a brilliant form of coercion.

"Pay without making a fuss and the fee is £40, question it, appeal it, delay in any way and you pay double."

I had this with a parking fine I appealed. £40 doubled in 14 days. By the time my appeal was heard the fee had risen to £120. A lot of people would have just paid up and accepted the unjustified loss, but I've always been bloody minded.

 

[Clip]

Which is a brilliant form of coercion.

"Pay without making a fuss and the fee is £40, question it, appeal it, delay in any way and you pay double."

I had this with a parking fine I appealed. £40 doubled in 14 days. By the time my appeal was heard the fee had risen to £120. A lot of people would have just paid up and accepted the unjustified loss, but I've always been bloody minded.

That doesnt seem right to me, im sure it has to be held at the price of the fine until the appeal is heard then you get the extra time to pay the original fine within a certain amount of days if you lose.

Unless of course you are not talking about a council enforced parking ticket.

 

[Tibbs]

That doesnt seem right to me, im sure it has to be held at the price of the fine until the appeal is heard then you get the extra time to pay the original fine within a certain amount of days if you lose.

Unless of course you are not talking about a council enforced parking ticket.

Nope, council enforced. This was a few years ago, so maybe they've changed to rules since.

 

[transmanche]

Which is a brilliant form of coercion.

"Pay without making a fuss and the fee is £40, question it, appeal it, delay in any way and you pay double."

Not quite; if you appeal within the 21-days and it's rejected, you then have 14 days (from the rejection) to pay the original amount.

 

[AndyLandy]

Which is a brilliant form of coercion.

"Pay without making a fuss and the fee is £40, question it, appeal it, delay in any way and you pay double."

I had this with a parking fine I appealed. £40 doubled in 14 days. By the time my appeal was heard the fee had risen to £120. A lot of people would have just paid up and accepted the unjustified loss, but I've always been bloody minded.

Conventional wisdom is to include a £40 cheque with your appeal letter. If your appeal is upheld, the cheque is returned to you. Certainly this is a valid strategy when dealing with reasonable organisations.

 

[wintonian]

Conventional wisdom is to include a £40 cheque with your appeal letter. If your appeal is upheld, the cheque is returned to you. Certainly this is a valid strategy when dealing with reasonable organisations.

Lots of people don't have a cheque book these days, so that's not always an option.

 

[yorkie]

Which is a brilliant form of coercion.

"Pay without making a fuss and the fee is £40, question it, appeal it, delay in any way and you pay double."

I had this with a parking fine I appealed. £40 doubled in 14 days. By the time my appeal was heard the fee had risen to £120. A lot of people would have just paid up and accepted the unjustified loss, but I've always been bloody minded.

My understanding is that you can pay the lower amount and still appeal, and they will refund you. I'm sure RJ posted this advice a few months ago.

 

[Eagle]

Good graph that. I like it.

It's called Lotka-Volterra dynamics, if you're interested.