I was given misinformation, and now they want to prosecute me.

[LozzaB]

On the 9th March 2017 I purchased a ticket from Lewes station with a 16-25 railcard travelling home from college to Haywards Heath Station.

When I arrived at the station in Haywards Heath my ticket failed to go through the barriers and I was asked to show my ticket. After I had produced my ticket, I was asked to show my railcard.

I was then told I was missing a part of the rail card that was needed for it to be accepted. As I stated on the 9th March; when I previously purchased the railcard I was given all the components currently in my possession (see attached image) and was assured by a member of staff that I did not need another component.

This was confirmed by a second member of staff shortly afterwards. Therefore I had been under the impression that I had a full railcard on the 9th. I had absolutely no reason for thinking I did not. The component in my possession has my photo and my date of birth on it

The ticket I purchased on the 9th cost me £4.50, however as I now do not use a railcard my journey from college costs me £6.50. The railcard would entitle me to 1/3 off travel costs. Once I has explained all of this on the 9th my details were taken and I was told to “wait for a letter.” I was given no other course of action.

Over a month has passed since the event (9th March 2017) and my receival of this letter (26th April 2017) so naturally I was not expecting it and had thought nothing more of the events of the 9th. I was not asked to pay a fine nor the remainder of the fare on the 9th March. Nor was I given any paperwork. This is the first and only letter I have received either from Thameslink Rail or the prosecutions department.

I will add when questioned about the railcard I was perfectly calm and cooperative and answered each question to the best of my knowledge.

 

[mikeg]

The railcard comes in two components when issued at a station, as I'm sure you now know: The photocard, which you mention plus the railcard itself which will have the railcard name and expiry date on it.

I can see why they want to prosecute if you only had a photocard. The other part should have been printed in the ticket machine on special ticket stock. To be honest, I can't really believe they wouldn't print the actual railcard.

However, the image you attempted to attach hasn't actually attached, so if you could please upload it again that would be great.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Yes we need to see scan of what you have please.

The industry has new guidelines on passengers traveling without railcard, they should be charged the full fare for the journey their undertaking and then they can providing its first time apply for a refund on production of valid railcard.

From what you said this course of action was not applied?

Missing/lost/stolen railcards can be replaced for £10.00 on production of the receipt part of the application form which will have the booking office stamp with date of purchase and railcard serial number on it.

 

[LozzaB]

this is the only component i recieved of the card, but at the time i was told by 2 members of staff that twas all i needed...

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes we need to see scan of what you have please.

The industry has new guidelines on passengers traveling without railcard, they should be charged the full fare for the journey their undertaking and then they can providing its first time apply for a refund on production of valid railcard.

From what you said this course of action was not applied?

Missing/lost/stolen railcards can be replaced for £10.00 on production of the receipt part of the application form which will have the booking office stamp with date of purchase and railcard serial number on it.

The guidance relates to passengers who have forgotten their railcard and can produce it later.

The OP didn't forget their railcard, which would have been apparent from their conversation with revenue staff.

 

[30907]

this is the only component i recieved of the card, but at the time i was told by 2 members of staff that twas all i needed...

Despite the clear wording that it is only valid with a railcard bearing the same number?

It might help if you could produce evidence of when you purchased the railcard.

 

[najaB]

this is the only component i recieved of the card, but at the time i was told by 2 members of staff that twas all i needed...

That seems very odd - especially since the photocard says on it that it is only valid with the railcard.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The guidance relates to passengers who have forgotten their railcard and can produce it later.

The OP didn't forget their railcard, which would have been apparent from their conversation with revenue staff.

It seems very odd that she insisted she had never had it!

There's a multitude of things that could have happened to the railcard (assuming it had been purchased) but I've never heard of one member of staff believing you only need the photo card let alone two. Whilst the online versions have the photo and card combined the paper versions are so different that it's obvious which is which having seen them once.

taking her story at face value the only route open to her is to produce evidence that she's purchased the railcard and write to the TOC in question with a full description of what happened date time etc. providing she's got proof of purchase it's then down to discretion at the TOC. I.e the paper trail id's the booking clerk in question who turns out to have been in their first week unsupervised then a clerical error is plausible.

Saying somebody said usually gets you nowhere there's no trail of evidence unless you track them down and they back you up in writing.
Proof of purchase?

 

[Fare-Cop]

I agree with all those who have commented that it is perfectly clear from the scan that the railcard is a two-part document, but a point that intrigues me is that, if the OP has been reported as seems evident from her post and the fact that she has received a letter, why does she still have the photo card?

The correct procedure if intending to report misuse of a Railcard discount in this way would be for the inspector to withdraw the evidence of the photo card and reduced fare ticket and submit with the report.

 

[LozzaB]

He took my ticket but not the card as far as i am aware.

Does anyone know if the company keeps a record of purchases, as i no longer have my reciept?

 

[trentside]

He took my ticket but not the card as far as i am aware.

Does anyone know if the company keeps a record of purchases, as i no longer have my reciept?

Records are not retained of issued railcards, so no. At the time of purchase you should have been given part of the railcard leaflet (with the form in) back as a receipt should the railcard be lost or stolen, do you definitely not still have this, as you should keep it in case you require a replacement.

Something odd about this case to me. I find it extremely odd that the OP has claimed they were only issued a photocard, though I have had people claim this to me it usually falls apart after some discussion and it turns out they forgot to renew, are over 25 now or have lost their actual railcard. So, is there more to this? Honesty helps us help you.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Records are not retained of issued railcards, so no. At the time of purchase you should have been given part of the railcard leaflet (with the form in) back as a receipt should the railcard be lost or stolen, do you definitely not still have this, as you should keep it in case you require a replacement.

Something odd about this case to me. I find it extremely odd that the OP has claimed they were only issued a photocard, though I have had people claim this to me it usually falls apart after some discussion and it turns out they forgot to renew, are over 25 now or have lost their actual railcard. So, is there more to this? Honesty helps us help you.

No railcard, no proof railcard was purchased.....the OP's options are very limited.

 

[Cantab26]

No railcard, no proof railcard was purchased.....the OP's options are very limited.

If the purchase was made by card then the transaction would appear on a bank or credit card statement.

Of course, this is still not guaranteed to make the the issue go away because it doesn't get around the suspicion that the railcard was lost some time after being purchased.

 

[LozzaB]

It is my first year of having a railcard, i am 18 and never had the othe rpart of the card. ...

Unfortunatly it was paid for in cash, so no chance of evidence there...

Any advice for what to do if the form does not turn up? I dont really know my options...

 

[Stew998]

Surely the railway has a record of what railcards are issued against a photocard? It then ought to be simple enough to demonstrate that a railcard had been purchased?

Then whilst pedantically an offence has apparently been committed it would be common sense for the railway to drop the matter as there was no intent to evade a fare and the OP knows the rules for the future.

Was the ticket bought over the counter or from a machine at Lewes?

 

[Gareth Marston]

It is my first year of having a railcard, i am 18 and never had the othe rpart of the card. ...

Unfortunatly it was paid for in cash, so no chance of evidence there...

Any advice for what to do if the form does not turn up? I dont really know my options...

Could you scan the letter so we can see what Thameslink are saying? Others will know better than I but i suspect paying some sort of fine will stop you being prosecuted and getting a criminal record.

 

[najaB]

Surely the railway has a record of what railcards are issued against a photocard?

Nope. You can buy a railcard-discounted ticket from a TVM or online without even having a railcard. And (as far as I know) ticket offices only ask to see it, they don't record the number.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Nope. You can buy a railcard-discounted ticket from a TVM or online without even having a railcard. And (as far as I know) ticket offices only ask to see it, they don't record the number.

No we don't record any numbers.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Any advice for what to do if the form does not turn up? I dont really know my options...

You don't have the railcard, and you don't have the proof needed to show that you ever had a railcard. You can hold a photocard without having a valid railcard. It is extremely surprising, to the point of sounding implausible, that two members of ticket office staff would make such a basic error in issuing the railcard.

All you can really do is explain the situation, and ask them whether they are prepared to deal with the matter without having to go to court. Expect to pay handsomely to keep it out of court.

 

[LozzaB]

The ticket was purchased from a machine at lewes, i didnt have time to que.

 

[Stew998]

Nope. You can buy a railcard-discounted ticket from a TVM or online without even having a railcard. And (as far as I know) ticket offices only ask to see it, they don't record the number.

I realise that but I wasn't talking about the ticket I was talking about the Railcard and the Photocard - the latter is obviously recorded against the former so surely they can be cross-referenced to prove that a railcard was purchased?

 

[BestWestern]

Surely a ticket office must record the Railcard number when issuing it? Otherwise why does the number exist?

I wonder if it's at all possible that the OP didn't pick up or notice the dated half, knew that she only had the photocard and asked if that's all she needed, and the staff, having issued both parts, assumed she was referring to both and answered accordingly?! That would beg the question where did the other half go, of course. OP, have you been back to the ticket office to ask if they've found the missing half lurking somewhere?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Surely a ticket office must record the Railcard number when issuing it? Otherwise why does the number exist?

I wonder if it's at all possible that the OP didn't pick up or notice the dated half, knew that she only had the photocard and asked if that's all she needed, and the staff, having issued both parts, assumed she was referring to both and answered accordingly?! That would beg the question where did the other half go, of course. OP, have you been back to the ticket office to ask if they've found the missing half lurking somewhere?

Something like that we would keep behind the counter assuming the "owner" would come back and ask.

 

[father_jack]

Something like that we would keep behind the counter assuming the "owner" would come back and ask.

And if they'd just bought the railcard of two parts and one part was dropped on the floor or left behind the passenger's address would be on the application form so they could be contacted.

 

[BestWestern]

And if they'd just bought the railcard of two parts and one part was dropped on the floor or left behind the passenger's address would be on the application form so they could be contacted.

This is where we come back to finding evidence of purchase. Where would these forms be held once the Railcard is issued?

 

[najaB]

This is where we come back to finding evidence of purchase.

We also come back to the question of likelihood, which is more likely: that the ticket clerk made up a photocard, processed payment for a railcard, handed the passenger only the photocard and then somehow forgot that they hadn't inserted the railcard in the wallet despite being asked (not forgetting that a second staff member also made the same mistake); or that the OP received both parts and somehow has subsequently misplaced the railcard?

To the OP: I'm not questioning your truthfulness, just your memory.

 

[Clip]

Surely a ticket office must record the Railcard number when issuing it? Otherwise why does the number exist?

The number is only there so it can match both railcard with the photocard and nothing else.

I must say I too find it hard to comprehend that any clerk would take payment and issue a railcard product without putting both into the wallet and handing it over as its just the natural thing to do.

But anything is possible really.

 

[island]

This is where we come back to finding evidence of purchase. Where would these forms be held once the Railcard is issued?

They are held in the issuing office for a few days and then couriered off to a data entry centre.

 

[SA_900]

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[Gareth Marston]

Why are you not able to apply for a replacement. This would then apply:

http://www.raildeliverygroup.com/media-centre/press-releases/2017/469772179-2017-03-21.html

See references to "proof of purchase" you need evidence of purchase ie stamped customer part of application form to get relacement.

I see these get left on counter or on platform benches. Some people don't seem to realise potential importance. I've had people in who have lost railcard and ask what they can do and look blank when I ask have you kept receipt part of application. It also contains the terms and conditions of use. The usual problem is with Two Togathar cards people try and use them before 0930 or YP minimum fare before 1000. Saying "no one told me" is not much use when you've signed to say you have agreed to the terms and chucked away the leaflet that tells you. Had one person kick off because I wouldn't let him have discount on a Network Card ....in Mid Wales.

One thing working in a booking office has taught me is how little the general public pay attention, read and assimilate readily available information.