I Squared Capital - Arriva UK BUS

[Russel]

The 74 Plate E200MMCs in the Merseytravel livery at Birkenhead, will be leaving when franchising begins according to a supervisor at Birkenhead. Imagine there would be a lot fight for these between different Arriva divisions.

Wonder where their streetlites will go.

How many is there?

 

[Kaliwax]

How many is there?

About 16 from Birkenhead.

 

[Statto]

The 74 Plate E200MMCs in the Merseytravel livery at Birkenhead, will be leaving when franchising begins according to a supervisor at Birkenhead. Imagine there would be a lot fight for these between different Arriva divisions.

Wonder where their streetlites will go.

I believe the E200MMCs are all going to Runcorn, unless that's changed

 

[Russel]

I saw a couple of Arriva North Easts E400 MMCs in Scarborough on Friday in the new, darker livery, in person it looks much darker than the previous shade of blue and is a much better choice, really smart.

 

[E B]

I saw an E400 with the darker blue in Liverpool today. I’m surprised that it was there, as I thought any repaints now would be into the yellow and grey colour scheme

 

[polskism]

I saw an E400 with the darker blue in Liverpool today. I’m surprised that it was there, as I thought any repaints now would be into the yellow and grey colour scheme

Merseytravel will be providing the fleet if they win any contracts, so there's no point as the fleet will likely be moved elsewhere.

 

[MotCO]

Merseytravel will be providing the fleet if they win any contracts, so there's no point as the fleet will likely be moved elsewhere.

All of them? Manchester bought some, and operators bought / leased the rest. Will the same happen in Liverpool? It will cost the City of Liverpool a tidy sum if they provide all the buses. (Yes, they will probably lease them to operators, but the initial outlay still has to be met. And then there will be a cliff-edge in 7 - 10 years' time when they all need to be replaced.)

 

[Qwerty133]

All of them? Manchester bought some, and operators bought / leased the rest. Will the same happen in Liverpool? It will cost the City of Liverpool a tidy sum if they provide all the buses. (Yes, they will probably lease them to operators, but the initial outlay still has to be met. And then there will be a cliff-edge in 7 - 10 years' time when they all need to be replaced.)

Properly maintained vehicles should be lasting for the best part of 20 years on front line work (with suitably sized ones then lasting another 5-10 years on school services and works contracts etc) so replacement in 7-10 years would be extremely wasteful.

 

[E B]

Merseytravel will be providing the fleet if they win any contracts, so there's no point as the fleet will likely be moved elsewhere.

Ah okay, thank you

 

[mangad]

All of them? Manchester bought some, and operators bought / leased the rest. Will the same happen in Liverpool? It will cost the City of Liverpool a tidy sum if they provide all the buses. (Yes, they will probably lease them to operators, but the initial outlay still has to be met. And then there will be a cliff-edge in 7 - 10 years' time when they all need to be replaced.

In Greater Manchester the small franchise vehicles are operator owned. it was a model designed to favour SME operators who would have their own vehicles, but in the end, favoured large operator with their own vehicles.

 

[Deerfold]

Properly maintained vehicles should be lasting for the best part of 20 years on front line work (with suitably sized ones then lasting another 5-10 years on school services and works contracts etc) so replacement in 7-10 years would be extremely wasteful.

Indeed, even London buses, which are worked long and hard, typically last 14 years (and then often have a life somewhere quieter).

 

[polskism]

All of them? Manchester bought some, and operators bought / leased the rest. Will the same happen in Liverpool? It will cost the City of Liverpool a tidy sum if they provide all the buses. (Yes, they will probably lease them to operators, but the initial outlay still has to be met. And then there will be a cliff-edge in 7 - 10 years' time when they all need to be replaced.)

Yes, for the most part. The only exception to this for now being the 10 E400MMCs from Stagecoach. There was recently a tender for about 500 odd vehicles for the second tranche which both Wrightbus and ADL have won the contracts for.

 

[Kaliwax]

YX20 OCY - The Bus Shop

This freshly re-painted Enviro 200 single deck bus has now been supplied to our repeat customer Arriva UK Bus for operation out of their Kent and Surrey depot. Utilising our network of industry supporting partners, we were able to arrange body repair and re-paint in to Arriva colours prior to...

the-bus-shop.co.uk

Another 2nd hand E200MMC for Kent and Surrey. Also ex Falcon, like some of the others.

 

[Russel]

YX20 OCY - The Bus Shop

This freshly re-painted Enviro 200 single deck bus has now been supplied to our repeat customer Arriva UK Bus for operation out of their Kent and Surrey depot. Utilising our network of industry supporting partners, we were able to arrange body repair and re-paint in to Arriva colours prior to...

the-bus-shop.co.uk

Another 2nd hand E200MMC for Kent and Surrey. Also ex Falcon, like some of the others.

Still seems odd to me, seeing a big group buying second hand, but the position Arriva are in fleet wise they don't really have much choice.

 

[Djgr]

All of them? Manchester bought some, and operators bought / leased the rest. Will the same happen in Liverpool? It will cost the City of Liverpool a tidy sum if they provide all the buses. (Yes, they will probably lease them to operators, but the initial outlay still has to be met. And then there will be a cliff-edge in 7 - 10 years' time when they all need to be replaced.)

It certainly won't be City of Liverpool but Liverpool City Region.

 

[joieman]

Still seems odd to me, seeing a big group buying second hand, but the position Arriva are in fleet wise they don't really have much choice.

It makes Arriva look more like an oversized medium-sized operator

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Remember that First also did a few tactical secondhand acquisitions when they were behind on their fleet replacement... the ex Jersey Caetano Darts?

The reality is/was that DB didn't have the funds for adequate fleet replacement, and UK Bus suffered. The irony was that First were still getting pelters from some as that supertanker wasn't turning fast enough (yet they were getting things sorted) whilst Arriva's issues were ignored by many.

 

[Russel]

Remember that First also did a few tactical secondhand acquisitions when they were behind on their fleet replacement... the ex Jersey Caetano Darts?

The reality is/was that DB didn't have the funds for adequate fleet replacement, and UK Bus suffered. The irony was that First were still getting pelters from some as that supertanker wasn't turning fast enough (yet they were getting things sorted) whilst Arriva's issues were ignored by many.

It does look like Arriva are starting to turn a corner, let's hope they can keep the momentum going.

 

[Kaliwax]

I don't think every route could justify brand new buses either, I think 2nd hand MMCs are better than cascades as well which probably would be streetlite.

Even Transdev was buying 2nd hand buses, look at Team Pennine, apart from the Stratas, I think rest of the fleet is 2nd hand enviros and cascaded eclipses.

Even Ireland are getting 2nd hand E200MMCs for a new contract thats happening.

 

[Great_Western]

It makes Arriva look more like an oversized medium-sized operator

I disagree. All of the biggest groups have purchased quality second hand vehicles at some point in time (apart from maybe Stagecoach, but they still keep second hand vehicles acquired though purchasing other operators right through to the end of their service lives).

I mean, look at Go Ahead, how many 15 year old former NXWM Enviro 400's did they buy?

I don't live anywhere near any Arriva territory, but looking at their progress under the new owner from afar, it seems like they genuinely are on the right track for the first time in a long time.

 

[Steve440]

I disagree. All of the biggest groups have purchased quality second hand vehicles at some point in time (apart from maybe Stagecoach, but they still keep second hand vehicles acquired though purchasing other operators right through to the end of their service lives).

I mean, look at Go Ahead, how many 15 year old former NXWM Enviro 400's did they buy?

I don't live anywhere near any Arriva territory, but looking at their progress under the new owner from afar, it seems like they genuinely are on the right track for the first time in a long time.

Even Stagecoach acquired a few short Enviro200's for Cambridge (I think)

 

[darloscott]

I don't think every route could justify brand new buses either, I think 2nd hand MMCs are better than cascades as well which probably would be streetlite.

Even Transdev was buying 2nd hand buses, look at Team Pennine, apart from the Stratas, I think rest of the fleet is 2nd hand enviros and cascaded eclipses.

Even Ireland are getting 2nd hand E200MMCs for a new contract thats happening.

The E200s were cascades from Heathrow when they got their new fleet of Evoras

 

[overthewater]

When I started this thread at the start of the year, I was hoping to get some positive news, and pretty quickly that actually happened, so I'm glad I started this thread. Yes it will take some more time to get into top gear but all the signs are pointing in the right direction. Still not sure about few certain areas but all compaines have them.

When is the bus refurbishment programme going to start?

 

[joieman]

When I started this thread at the start of the year, I was hoping to get some positive news, and pretty quickly that actually happened, so I'm glad I started this thread. Yes it will take some more time to get into top gear but all the signs are pointing in the right direction. Still not sure about few certain areas but all compaines have them.

When is the bus refurbishment programme going to start?

It's already started in some places. Leicestershire has had three buses thus far been repainted and reupholstered, while a programme to repaint and re-engine the coaches for the X6 between Leicester and Coventry is also ongoing.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's already started in some places. Leicestershire has had three buses thus far been repainted and reupholstered, while a programme to repaint and re-engine the coaches for the X6 between Leicester and Coventry is also ongoing.

Yes - the new moquette has begun appearing on refurbs with some in Southern Counties as well apparently.

 

[BuhSnarf]

I actually saw a bus in the 'flesh' the other day that is in the new tone of blue and whilst not that different to the existing fleet it did look nice. It's a shame they've gone so conservative, though.

 

[Pyromaniac]

It is confirmed that Arriva Colchester is losing the Park & Ride tender from late September.

https://travelessex-production-bucket.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/cms-assets/buspassengernewspdfs/bus_passenger_news_-30-august-2026.pdf

This will leave the Colchester depot with only commercial routes 1, 2 and 8 on their books with an end of life depreciated fleet.

It's pains me to think and say this, but I suspect this depot was let down too much under DB and is now too far gone for the Arriva renaissance.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It is confirmed that Arriva Colchester is losing the Park & Ride tender from late September.

https://travelessex-production-bucket.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/cms-assets/buspassengernewspdfs/bus_passenger_news_-30-august-2026.pdf

This will leave the Colchester depot with only commercial routes 1, 2 and 8 on their books with an end of life depreciated fleet.

It's pains me to think and say this, but I suspect this depot was let down too much under DB and is now too far gone for the Arriva renaissance.

I always try to steer clear of unwarranted speculation but it's fair to say that it looks very challenging to sustain a depot on that basis.