Hypothetically going all in on the NSE livery with the Class 466

[frankmoh]

Nowadays, the Class 466 Networkers are forced to run in tandem with the Class 465s as 6/10 car trains due to not meeting accessibility concerns. The heritage livery for 465908 is forced to have white doors due to similar accessibility concerns as well.

What I'm suggesting (although I have a feeling someone will tell me I'm wrong) is that the 466s could have the true NSE livery with colour matching doors because they already don't meet modern accessibility requirements, so they might as well go all in with it. Considering Southeastern already splits up 465908 in half to link with other trains, I can see them doing this for a 466 (or two... or three).

 

[generalnerd]

I still think you’d struggle with the dft letting you, but maybe it would be good for railtours

 

[Leyland Bus]

Nowadays, the Class 466 Networkers are forced to run in tandem with the Class 465s as 6/10 car trains due to not meeting accessibility concerns. The heritage livery for 465908 is forced to have white doors due to similar accessibility concerns as well.

What I'm suggesting (although I have a feeling someone will tell me I'm wrong) is that the 466s could have the true NSE livery with colour matching doors because they already don't meet modern accessibility requirements, so they might as well go all in with it. Considering Southeastern already splits up 465908 in half to link with other trains, I can see them doing this for a 466 (or two... or three).

The doors aren't part and parcel of wider accessibility rules, if you don't have one you don't need the other, they're (as far as I'm aware) a mandatory ruling to aid partially sighted people know where the doors are.

The livery has been done extremely tastefully. I don't think excluding parts of society to appease enthusiasts is a clever move...

 

[43096]

I still think you’d struggle with the dft letting you, but maybe it would be good for railtours

I’m sure there’s not much demand for railtours on a train that can’t run beyond a corner of Kent.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The contrasting doors actually look better to me than the photo of the original. The one thing I'd change is the silver window frames which look much nicer than the solid blue on the 465.

 

[generalnerd]

I’m sure there’s not much demand for railtours on a train that can’t run beyond a corner of Kent.

Oh sorry I’m confusing it with the 166, my bad

 

[frankmoh]

Oh sorry I’m confusing it with the 166, my bad

Well the 466 did used to run on the little branch lines like Addiscombe and Bromley North.

 

[brad465]

The 466s still needed other PRM modifications to get the derogation cleared, they didn't just get it for free. Removing any one of the requirements could easily tip the affected unit(s) into being unable to run full stop.

Personally, the thing that bothers me most about the restored livery on 908 is not the doors, they seem to have been done well while considering requirements, it's that they didn't do the white-bordered windows (which I think could link up with the grey/white doors well).

 

[Sun Chariot]

Personally, the thing that bothers me most about the restored livery ... is that they didn't do the white-bordered windows.

Those polished aluminium frames on the Networkers and the dull grey alu' frames on the 165s / 166s, nicely balanced their expanse of bodyside colour, particularly NSE blue.
I remember seeing a few 165s with frames painted blue; and the effect was as bland as you allude to @brad465

 

[norbitonflyer]

What I'm suggesting (although I have a feeling someone will tell me I'm wrong) is that the 466s could have the true NSE livery with colour matching doors because they already don't meet modern accessibility requirements, so they might as well go all in with it. Considering Southeastern already splits up 465908 in half to link with other trains, I can see them doing this for a 466 (or two... or three).

The different coloured doors are unrelated to the other accessibility requirements - partially sighted people do not necessarily need accessible loos, and people with mobility issues may have 20/20 vision.

Are 465s regularly reformed as you suggest (half of one unit and half of another)? Or are you seeing two complete 4-car units in different liveries forming an 8-car train?

Like this (sorry, i couldn't find one of the 465)

 

[frankmoh]

The different coloured doors are unrelated to the other accessibility requirements - partially sighted people do not necessarily need accessible loos, and people with mobility issues may have 20/20 vision.

Are 465s regularly reformed as you suggest (half of one unit and half of another)? Or are you seeing two complete 4-car units in different liveries forming an 8-car train?

Like this (sorry, i couldn't find one of the 465)

Regularly reformed? Not that I know of, but I've seen it happen twice. To reiterate what superalbs told me on a previous post:

Probably because a 10 8 car train is better than a 5 4 car train, and it makes no sense to cut the train's capacity in half just because it's a different colour.

 

[35B]

Regularly reformed? Not that I know of, but I've seen it happen twice. To reiterate what superalbs told me on a previous post:

Really? A unit reformed, or attached to other units? 465908 is a 4 car unit and, as far as I’m aware, the 465s have been pretty consistently formed.

 

[Brubulus]

Nowadays, the Class 466 Networkers are forced to run in tandem with the Class 465s as 6/10 car trains due to not meeting accessibility concerns. The heritage livery for 465908 is forced to have white doors due to similar accessibility concerns as well.

What I'm suggesting (although I have a feeling someone will tell me I'm wrong) is that the 466s could have the true NSE livery with colour matching doors because they already don't meet modern accessibility requirements, so they might as well go all in with it. Considering Southeastern already splits up 465908 in half to link with other trains, I can see them doing this for a 466 (or two... or three).

I really like the 465908 NSE livery, and would really like something similar as the base for the GBR Livery, potentially alongside something resembling the Intercity livery. I can't see the reason for reducing accessibility on 465908/466s out of pure nostalgia, even though the NSE livery is one of the best railway liveries of all time in my opinion.

 

[D365]

I can't see the reason for reducing accessibility on 465908/466s out of pure nostalgia, even though the NSE livery is one of the best railway liveries of all time in my opinion.

Indeed. Just because a unit is not fully compliant to all relevant and applicable passenger standards, doesn’t give it a free pass for total non-compliance.

 

[frankmoh]

Really? A unit reformed, or attached to other units? 465908 is a 4 car unit and, as far as I’m aware, the 465s have been pretty consistently formed.

I don't think they reform 465908 too much given how it stick out like a sore thumb. Other cars they do but you would never notice nowadays aside from the cab number.

Here are some pictures of back in 2004 when liveries of what would become Southeastern were much more varied. Credit to B.P.M.R by Loco66 for the videos.





Credit to CC2 Crashes for this video, as you can see Southeastern still does not too much about livery combinations even in 2025.



Speaking of, if 2007 was when the last NSE train was reliveried, when was the last Connex one?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Speaking of, if 2007 was when the last NSE train was reliveried, when was the last Connex one?

It hasn’t happened yet. They’re six units into reliverying the 376s. When the full thirty-odd strong fleet is done, assumedly this year if they keep going so fast, then we’ll have seen the last Connex liveried train go.

 

[frankmoh]

It hasn’t happened yet. They’re six units into reliverying the 376s. When the full thirty-odd strong fleet is done, assumedly this year if they keep going so fast, then we’ll have seen the last Connex liveried train go.

Oh sorry I don't mean the late Connex/SET livery, I mean the one that went on top of the NSE livery. Wondering when that went, at the latest I would assume 2015 given the 12 year paint rule. Could be plausible for an early 465 made in 1991, and then wrapped in the Connex livery in 2003.

 

[35B]

I don't think they reform 465908 too much given how it stick out like a sore thumb. Other cars they do but you would never notice nowadays aside from the cab number.

Here are some pictures of back in 2004 when liveries of what would become Southeastern were much more varied. Credit to B.P.M.R by Loco66 for the videos.


View attachment 180876
View attachment 180878

Credit to CC2 Crashes for this video, as you can see Southeastern still does not too much about livery combinations even in 2025.

View attachment 180879

Speaking of, if 2007 was when the last NSE train was reliveried, when was the last Connex one?

Precisely my point. The units remain intact, but are paired up with other units carrying different liveries.

 

[Mark J]

Nowadays, the Class 466 Networkers are forced to run in tandem with the Class 465s as 6/10 car trains due to not meeting accessibility concerns. The heritage livery for 465908 is forced to have white doors due to similar accessibility concerns as well.

What I'm suggesting (although I have a feeling someone will tell me I'm wrong) is that the 466s could have the true NSE livery with colour matching doors because they already don't meet modern accessibility requirements, so they might as well go all in with it. Considering Southeastern already splits up 465908 in half to link with other trains, I can see them doing this for a 466 (or two... or three).

I can't read the lettering on the side in the second image, to the left of the doors.

Do these Trains say 'Network Southeast' , or 'Network Southeastern'.

 

[frankmoh]

Here's evidence of 465908 being reformed, credit to Matthew’s Buses1997

I can't read the lettering on the side in the second image, to the left of the doors.

Do these Trains say 'Network Southeast' , or 'Network Southeastern'.

From pictures I've seen, it says Network Southeast only. Makes sense given the modern SE logo is already there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2025 ==

AND ANOTHER THING

I wonder why they chose 465908 as the NSE train and not 465001, the first 465 Networker? It's still in service.

 

[35B]

View attachment 180928
Here's evidence of 465908 being reformed, credit to Matthew’s Buses1997


From pictures I've seen, it says Network Southeast only. Makes sense given the modern SE logo is already there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2025 ==

AND ANOTHER THING

I wonder why they chose 465908 as the NSE train and not 465001, the first 465 Networker? It's still in service.

That is not 465908 being reformed, but 465908 being paired with another unit.

As for the choice of unit, I'd guess it had to do with maintenance schedules - and I'd also want to check which was the first unit in service bearing in mind that the 465/0 and 465/2 fleets were introduced in parallel, and then the 465/1s followed later. Lowest numbered isn't always a sign of being "first".

 

[frankmoh]

That is not 465908 being reformed, but 465908 being paired with another unit.

As for the choice of unit, I'd guess it had to do with maintenance schedules - and I'd also want to check which was the first unit in service bearing in mind that the 465/0 and 465/2 fleets were introduced in parallel, and then the 465/1s followed later. Lowest numbered isn't always a sign of being "first".

It would be weird for the first 465 running ever to be a /2 but I guess it just depended on which one was finished first. 465001 would be more symbolic though of SE's heritage.

Every day I hold out for the Jaffa Cake livery to make a comeback.

 

[Sun Chariot]

It would be weird for the first 465 running ever to be a /2 but I guess it just depended on which one was finished first.

(from the excellent Kent Rail website):
1st April 1992, 465202 arrived at Slade Green Depot, the first unit to be allocated there.
11th August, 465001 + 465004 formed the first 465 working, a run for the railway press from Cannon Streer to Sevenoaks.
13th October, 465214 + 465215 were first ‘’normal’’ service.

 

[Zomboid]

(from the excellent Kent Rail website):
1st April 1992, 465202 arrived at Slade Green Depot, the first unit to be allocated there.
11th August, 465001 + 465004 formed the first 465 working, a run for the railway press from Cannon Streer to Sevenoaks.
13th October, 465214 + 465215 were first ‘’normal’’ service.

Weren't they tested on the Shepperton branch before doing anything in Kent?

 

[Stephen42]

I wonder why they chose 465908 as the NSE train and not 465001, the first 465 Networker? It's still in service.

Angel Trains funded the repaint and 465001 isn't one of their units. 465908 was undergoing heavy maintenance around the time of the repaint and Wabtec carried out the work alongside that scheduled maintenance.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Weren't they tested on the Shepperton branch before doing anything in Kent?

Tested, yes. I don't recall if they ran revenue earning workings on the Shepperton branch, prior to the dates quoted on Kent Rail. I had already begun to drift away from the railway scene by the time of their introduction.

 

[frankmoh]

Angel Trains funded the repaint and 465001 isn't one of their units. 465908 was undergoing heavy maintenance around the time of the repaint and Wabtec carried out the work alongside that scheduled maintenance.

This makes a lot of sense. I assume Eversholt is not too keen on nostalgia.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2025 ==

(from the excellent Kent Rail website):
1st April 1992, 465202 arrived at Slade Green Depot, the first unit to be allocated there.
11th August, 465001 + 465004 formed the first 465 working, a run for the railway press from Cannon Streer to Sevenoaks.
13th October, 465214 + 465215 were first ‘’normal’’ service.

According to the internet the first 465 (dunno which one) was delivered in December 1991. What was the delay between that and April 1992?

 

[Sun Chariot]

According to the internet the first 465 (dunno which one) was delivered in December 1991. What was the delay between that and April 1992?

Post #24?

 

[frankmoh]

Post #24?

According to Wikipedia: "Networker 465: Dawn of a New Era Of Trains". The Railway Magazine. No. 1090. February 1992. p. 18. Hopefully someone who sees this thread has a copy.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Tested, yes. I don't recall if they ran revenue earning workings on the Shepperton branch, prior to the dates quoted on Kent Rail. I had already begun to drift away from the railway scene by the time of their introduction.

It was empty tests only - the service entry on what is now SE Railway was their first use in anger.