Hypothetical - split ticket and delays

[158801]

I hold two tickets:-
1) an advance - Grand Central Only 0853 Sunderland to York arr 1024
2) an advance - XC only 1044 York to Leeds 1107

Now, if the Grand Central train arrives in York late - lets say at 1045 - could I use my XC only advance ticket on the 1050 Transpennine service or the 1108 Northern Service ?

If I have to wait for the next XC service to Leeds it’s not until 1144 which would delay me by 61 minutes ( yes the 1144 takes 1 minute longer than the 1044!)

I know I could always ask the guard but am I automatically entitled to catch a different operators train if it would avoid a delay of over 1 hour?

 

[yorkie]

I assume this was purchased as part of a through itinerary? If you selected e-tickets you will have one PDF showing all tickets, right?

If so, while this doesn't grant you any additional rights over doing it yourself, it's really excellent evidence that it is all one journey. In my experience staff are generally highly likely to endorse/allow travel on alternative trains in such situations.

You are right that as the delay would be over an hour, you are entitled to be re-routed, however the process involved can often be convoluted; the rules are not worded in the way that they should be, to make it an easy seamless process (or perhaps that could be viewed as the rail industry not having a proper procedure in place to facilitate this, but that's a whole new topic!), but if it was me, I'd start by tweeting all relevant train companies (i.e. GC, XC, Northern), showing them the itinerary and asking for permission to minimise the extent of your delay.

If that fails, you can visit the ticket office at York (but given it's operated by LNER and not any of the relevant operators, I doubt this would be fruitful), but the next thing to do is simply ask the Guard of the relevant trains; the 1008 and 1023 Northern trains start from York and most of the staff on this route do appear to be friendly and pragmatic, so I rate your chance of success as quite high.

 

[Haywain]

am I automatically entitled to catch a different operators train if it would avoid a delay of over 1 hour?

In short, no, you have no such rights. The legislation that entitles you to be rerouted sets out that the operator who delays you should arrange that (Grand Central in your example) and not that you are granted any rights to do so yourself. This means that Grand Central could make an arrangement for your ticket to be accepted by another operator, or purchase another ticket to cover that.

 

[mangyiscute]

most of the time when I've had issues like this speaking to the guard is your best option as most will allow you to travel due to the delay (for example I've had avanti guards allow me to travel via london on a carlisle to reading via banbury journey using split ticket due to disruption) - just make sure you find and ask them when the train is at york rather than getting on the train and then waiting until they come round checking tickets as that could be seen as fare evasion

 

[yorkie]

... as that could be seen as fare evasion

I don't agree that using the wrong company's trains due to disruption could reasonably be seen as fare evasion, but that's for another topic! Unfortunately using the wrong train company can lead to a Penalty Fare, as the rules are very much stacked against passengers. This would only apply if an authorised collector was present on the train.

 

[Llandudno]

most of the time when I've had issues like this speaking to the guard is your best option as most will allow you to travel due to the delay (for example I've had avanti guards allow me to travel via london on a carlisle to reading via banbury journey using split ticket due to disruption) - just make sure you find and ask them when the train is at york rather than getting on the train and then waiting until they come round checking tickets as that could be seen as fare evasion

Absolutely!

The vast majority of guards are great, just make sure you smile and ask politely!!

 

[Graham H]

most of the time when I've had issues like this speaking to the guard is your best option as most will allow you to travel due to the delay (for example I've had avanti guards allow me to travel via london on a carlisle to reading via banbury journey using split ticket due to disruption) - just make sure you find and ask them when the train is at york rather than getting on the train and then waiting until they come round checking tickets as that could be seen as fare evasion

Thats great and pro active by Avanti but what happened at presumably Paddington. Wouldnt a jobsworth tell you the ticket wasnt valid as I presume it wouldnt open the barrier at Paddington. Did the helpful Avanti guard endorse your ticket as there are many cases on this forum where the innocent passenger has been told something by who they (rightly in my view) see as a railway representative and may have no idea that the next step of the journey is with another TOC. Can an Avanti guard really endorse the use of a FGW train, they should be able to but the railway these days isnt always as joined up as it could be.

 

[mangyiscute]

Thats great and pro active by Avanti but what happened at presumably Paddington. Wouldnt a jobsworth tell you the ticket wasnt valid as I presume it wouldnt open the barrier at Paddington. Did the helpful Avanti guard endorse your ticket as there are many cases on this forum where the innocent passenger has been told something by who they (rightly in my view) see as a railway representative and may have no idea that the next step of the journey is with another TOC. Can an Avanti guard really endorse the use of a FGW train, they should be able to but the railway these days isnt always as joined up as it could be.

Paddington was great actually, the barrier was open so I went through and asked the train manager if i could board with my ticket (explaining that I was delayed and had to go through london), and they said sure so I did get to take that one for free too. (otherwise I would've used contactless and claimed a refund from avanti) Had to pay £1.65 for the tube but I was fine doing that

 

[Birmingham]

Paddington was great actually, the barrier was open so I went through and asked the train manager if i could board with my ticket (explaining that I was delayed and had to go through london), and they said sure so I did get to take that one for free too. (otherwise I would've used contactless and claimed a refund from avanti) Had to pay £1.65 for the tube but I was fine doing that

Things always seems to go a lot better when you can speak directly to on-board staff (also if you can ask ‘I’m running late, please may I buy a ticket off you?’). I fear had the barriers at Paddington been closed, you wouldn’t have been allowed through unless formal acceptance was in place.

 

[mangyiscute]

Things always seems to go a lot better when you can speak directly to on-board staff (also if you can ask ‘I’m running late, please may I buy a ticket off you?’). I fear had the barriers at Paddington been closed, you wouldn’t have been allowed through unless formal acceptance was in place.

I've barely ever had to ask barrier stuff when things like that happen tho - I guess that besides london you are very rarely going to have to exit a gateline if you are delayed and have to go a different route, and when I'm delayed, it'll mean its usually pretty late so ticket barriers will often be open