Hypothetical question regards stations without a tickets machine.

[Donny158]

Hi.

I was wondering what would happen in the following circumstance.....

Myself and say 15 other people board a Northern train at say Shireoaks station and travel one stop to Kiveton Park. Both stations don't have any ticket machines. The conductor would be very busy and would possibly only have time during the 6 min journey to take 7 peoples fares. Everyone would get off at Kiveton Park to be met by the Revenue protection team. Would this be deemed an offence and would the people without tickets be reported for prosecution and the courts??
After reading several other threads I'm not entirely sure of the answer?
If this was the rule and the people without tickets were to be charged would it ever come to the situation where people could demand the conductor sells the customer a ticket before the train departs resulting in delays? I know the last suggestion is probably silly and wouldn't be allowed due to safety reasons etc.

Apologies if this has been asked before and please remove if in the wrong place!

 

[bb21]

Would this be deemed an offence and would the people without tickets be reported for prosecution and the courts??

They shouldn't. No opportunity to pay whatsoever. Take it as a free bonus in that case.

If you have a particularly sensitive guilty conscience, pay the guard on the way back for both journeys.

 

[142094]

Punctuality always comes before revenue so the guard would get a 'Please Explain' a few days later if they were to delay a train to sell a few people some tickets.

One thing that often helps is if a group of four people get on but only one person pays for the whole group - a lot faster than having to do a separate transaction for each member of the group, especially if the fare is only a few quid.

 

[Flamingo]

Punctuality always comes before revenue so the guard would get a 'Please Explain' a few days later if they were to delay a train to sell a few people some tickets.

One thing that often helps is if a group of four people get on but only one person pays for the whole group - a lot faster than having to do a separate transaction for each member of the group, especially if the fare is only a few quid.

Too right we'd get a please explain!

When selling tickets to a group, I'll offer a group ticket but say I'll only do it if one pays and they sort it out amongst themselves. I've never had a problem, most of the time they are delighted to be offered a third or a half off their fare

 

[sheff1]

If this was the rule and the people without tickets were to be charged would it ever come to the situation where people could demand the conductor sells the customer a ticket before the train departs resulting in delays? I know the last suggestion is probably silly and wouldn't be allowed due to safety reasons etc.

A number of people on here have said you should approach the conductor if you board at an unstaffed station with no ticket machine. Anyone who travels on Northern regularly knows this is both impractical and likely to start an argument with passengers who boarded at previous unmanned stations and are yet to be served. On many routes is is quite feasible that in excess of the 16 passengers you mentioned will board at each of a sequence of such stations only a few minutes apart. It is, of course, impossible for even the most keen of guards to issue tickets to all the punters who are only travelling a short distance.

 

[34D]

The TOC should put a second guard on. Or invest in a TVM. Or take an active part in the smartcard schemes that are progressing in their area.

 

[jb]

The TOC should put a second guard on. Or invest in a TVM. Or take an active part in the smartcard schemes that are progressing in their area.

Or, as they do, write off the lost revenue. (Noting that this does not give other passengers carte blanche to decide that paying is optional).

 

[Gareth Marston]

The TOC should put a second guard on. Or invest in a TVM. Or take an active part in the smartcard schemes that are progressing in their area.

This costs and the TOC doesn't like spending as theres a possibility it would take some time to pay for itself if at all. Far easier and cheaper to have occasional clampdowns and make examples of those caught hoping this will deter others for a while.

 

[Donny158]

Thanks for the replies!!

I think what I'm trying to understand is how it works with the rules if travelling from an unstaffed station without ticket facilities.

Recently myself and several friends travelled from Kiveton Park which is without ticket purchasing facilities to Meadowhall. On the journey the conductor didn't have a chance of getting all the tickets as the train was packed with football fans and shoppers etc! When we arrived at meadowhall I was fearful of a ticket inspection as I had seen one taking place a few months ago! So what would have happened had the revenue protection people been in place at meadowhall? For the recond we all purchased return tickets for the journey home!!
Many thanks!

 

[trc666]

Well if you were unable to purchase a ticket due to there being no facilities available at Kiveton Park (and you were unable to speak to the guard), then you would be allowed to purchase your ticket without penalty from the Revenue Protection staff at Meadowhall as this would be the first available opportunity to get a ticket. You would only be penalised if you attempted to leave the station without paying the fare due.

 

[bb21]

Thanks for the replies!!

I think what I'm trying to understand is how it works with the rules if travelling from an unstaffed station without ticket facilities.

Recently myself and several friends travelled from Kiveton Park which is without ticket purchasing facilities to Meadowhall. On the journey the conductor didn't have a chance of getting all the tickets as the train was packed with football fans and shoppers etc! When we arrived at meadowhall I was fearful of a ticket inspection as I had seen one taking place a few months ago! So what would have happened had the revenue protection people been in place at meadowhall? For the recond we all purchased return tickets for the journey home!!
Many thanks!

The correct course of action in your case is to purchase your ticket on arrival at Meadowhall, if the ticket office is open.

There should be no penalty for doing so as you did not get an opportunity to pay before then.

 

[142094]

Kiveton Park to Meadowhall is quite a distance (a good half hour), so I'd say it would be reasonable in that time the guard would be able to get down the train, unless it is rammed.

 

[sheff1]

Kiveton Park to Meadowhall is quite a distance (a good half hour), so I'd say it would be reasonable in that time the guard would be able to get down the train, unless it is rammed.

Really ? I can only assume you are not a frequent user of the route. Anyway the OP said it was rammed, which doesn't surprise me at all if one of the Sheffield clubs were at home. These trains as busy enough with Meadowhall shoppers at the best of times.

 

[bb21]

Yes. I have had the unfortunate experience of being on a crush-loaded pacer despite no football on this route on a number of Saturdays. It is by no means a rare occurrence.

 

[12CSVT]

This costs and the TOC doesn't like spending as theres a possibility it would take some time to pay for itself if at all. Far easier and cheaper to have occasional clampdowns and make examples of those caught hoping this will deter others for a while.

What sort of clampdown exactly ? Penalising passengers for making journeys between two stations with no ticket issuing facilities ?

 

[34D]

Thanks for the replies!!

I think what I'm trying to understand is how it works with the rules if travelling from an unstaffed station without ticket facilities.

Recently myself and several friends travelled from Kiveton Park which is without ticket purchasing facilities to Meadowhall. On the journey the conductor didn't have a chance of getting all the tickets as the train was packed with football fans and shoppers etc! When we arrived at meadowhall I was fearful of a ticket inspection as I had seen one taking place a few months ago! So what would have happened had the revenue protection people been in place at meadowhall? For the recond we all purchased return tickets for the journey home!!
Many thanks!

Two comments:

Meadowhall is staffed. You could get reported for prosecution if you walked past the ticket office there, on your arrival.

Please do NOT buy tickets like that. If your journey is Kiveton Park to Meadowhall and Meadowhall back to Kiveton Park, a return FROM meadowhall to Kiveton Park is the wrong ticket, and could possibly land you in trouble, as the outward portion would be invalid (as the RTN portion has already been used).

 

[Gareth Marston]

What sort of clampdown exactly ? Penalising passengers for making journeys between two stations with no ticket issuing facilities ?

The industry does not want to pay for near 100% revenue or provide the facilities ( most) customers want, they want to get the extra revenue they think is avoided on the cheap. I,m sure the conductors that post here would prefer a colleague to help on busy trains or have stations properly manned.