Hypothetical question regarding 1st class

[Starmill]

I wondered at the time what would have happened if I had travelled in first class, and asked to be sold a first class ticket, given that:
1) Patchway has no purchase facilities whatsoever (so PFs are out of the question);
2) There is no first class fare between Patchway and Bristol Temple Meads, and;
3) The old 1.5 multiplier has been officially abolished

I have seen a similar situation. The guard explained that there was no first class fare available for their journey, so the said that they would sell them a standard class ticket and they could have a free upgrade to first on this occasion only. I would not expect that treatment generally though!

 

[kieron]

I agree that if there's no opportunity to purchase then they can't be given a PF or prosecuted, but the problem is that there *was* an opportunity to purchase a standard class ticket, so they still need to answer the question: "You had a standard class ticket, why were you in first class accommodation?"

You can buy a standard class ticket from Urmston to Manchester CTLZ easily enough on-line, but not a first class one. That's why the customer was still looking for an upgrade on encountering the RPI.

The CoT say "you should pay the additional fare due before you board the train", but I suspect the use of "should" rather than "must" (which is used elsewhere) is to cover the fact that not everyone has an opportunity to pay the extra beforehand.

 

[Hophead]

Ummmm, I'm not the expert that many of you round here are, but it took me just a couple of minutes on National Rail to find a 1st class single for £64.50, departing Twyford at 10:00 on Thursday, arriving 13:23.

Does the apparent existence of a valid fare change the situation at all?

 

[najaB]

Ummmm, I'm not the expert that many of you round here are, but it took me just a couple of minutes on National Rail to find a 1st class single...

This was pointed out in post #3, however the general question still remains unanswered: is there or is there not a basis for a PF/prosecution in the situation outlined in the OP (ignoring the specific flow mentioned).

My contention is that since the train is advertised as conveying first class accommodation, then it is necessary to hold a ticket or excess that allows you to remain in first class. Failure to pay the appropriate fare, and/or remaining in first class when requested to leave would be valid grounds for the TOC taking action.

 

[PeterC]

This was pointed out in post #3, however the general question still remains unanswered: is there or is there not a basis for a PF/prosecution in the situation outlined in the OP (ignoring the specific flow mentioned).

My contention is that since the train is advertised as conveying first class accommodation, then it is necessary to hold a ticket or excess that allows you to remain in first class. Failure to pay the appropriate fare, and/or remaining in first class when requested to leave would be valid grounds for the TOC taking action.

There have been so many different scenarios quoted that it is easy to end up talking at cross purposes. My understanding of the OP is that the journey is essentially A to C changing at B where A to B is a service without first class and B to C has first class. and no through first class fare is available. In that case on the B to C section I would agree with najaB.