Hypothetical: excess after expiration

[Merseysider]

Joe Bloggs buys a single online and collects at the station, which did not have an open ticket office at the time of travel (late at night for example). He realises before boarding the train that instead of an off-peak single, he wants the off-peak return, which is 50p more, compared to singles at £50 each.

Obviously, this type of excess is supposed to be done prior to travel. However, if there are no staff available before, during or at the end of his journey who can excess the ticket, does he have the right to excess to a return after the ticket's validity has expired?

 

[bb21]

I think it may be a bit of a grey area since you had no opportunity to pay until that point. I would imagine most staff would use discretion.

I have been in such a situation before, with a request for an over-distance rather than change of ticket type XS. I had a word with the guard on the leg after my original ticket expired and was allowed on with the excess fare sorted after departure.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Joe Bloggs buys a single online and collects at the station, which did not have an open ticket office at the time of travel (late at night for example). He realises before boarding the train that instead of an off-peak single, he wants the off-peak return, which is 50p more, compared to singles at £50 each.

Obviously, this type of excess is supposed to be done prior to travel. However, if there are no staff available before, during or at the end of his journey who can excess the ticket, does he have the right to excess to a return after the ticket's validity has expired?

The rules on Excess Fares say it must be done "at the earliest possible opportunity" but "before the validity of the Single has expired". A Guard could show discretion where that was not possible.

 

[Merseysider]

So it's down to discretion rather than there being a particular exception, which is partly what I expected. Obviously, I suppose it would be easier if the passenger asked the TOC directly but I was just interested to see what the official line was on it.

Supposing the earliest opportunity wasn't until the next day, or beyond (some stations shut on Sundays!) how far would you expect discretion to be shown?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

.....Supposing the earliest opportunity wasn't until the next day, or beyond (some stations shut on Sundays!) how far would you expect discretion to be shown?

I would suggest that, where discretion is shown, it is likely to be case by case rather than a general rule.

 

[trentside]

I'll generally do a change of ticket type for someone on the same day. I've had people come up to me with tickets from yesterday in a similar situation to that described by JakeF and will also use discretion but advise them I'm bending the rules a little for them and it won't be guaranteed in future.

I did actually recently withdraw an X/S that a booking office had issued against a single ticket from the day before, almost 24 hours after the original issue (customer would have passed during their opening hours the day before) with an incorrect start date. The customer was quite understanding, and happy to get a free excess ticket to complete his journey. I felt the ticket was a bit too "dodgy" and might cause issues for him further down the line.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I did actually recently withdraw an X/S that a booking office had issued against a single ticket from the day before, almost 24 hours after the original issue (customer would have passed during their opening hours the day before) with an incorrect start date. The customer was quite understanding, and happy to get a free excess ticket to complete his journey. I felt the ticket was a bit too "dodgy" and might cause issues for him further down the line.

Ticket office machines can't back-date tickets.

 

[trentside]

Ticket office machines can't back-date tickets.

Indeed they can't, they'd issued the X/S from the current day - despite the original being dated for yesterday. So the customer had gained an extra days validity on his return portion. So say the ticket was for 19/09/14, the X/S had a start date of 20/09/14... :roll:

 

[Merseysider]

Indeed they can't, they'd issued the X/S from the current day - despite the original being dated for yesterday. So the customer had gained an extra days validity on his return portion. So say the ticket was for 19/09/14, the X/S had a start date of 20/09/14... :roll:

I've had that before on an SVR, probably around March time, approached the ticket office two weeks into the return period and asked for an overdistance XS... was surprised to find my ticket was now 'valid' until May

 

[Flamingo]

I've happily done this kind of excess on-board during the outward journey, without any query.

However, if anybody asked for it while travelling the "wrong" way on a single, it would really depend on the journey. If it was not the same day as the outward journey I would almost certainly say no.

 

[Merseysider]

I've happily done this kind of excess on-board during the outward journey, without any query.

However, if anybody asked for it while travelling the "wrong" way on a single, it would really depend on the journey. If it was not the same day as the outward journey I would almost certainly say no.

And that's it, if they're already travelling - they can see you're there before they get on the train so if they really hadn't had an opportunity before then to xs, asking you before they got on the train would be more likely to get discretion of some sort I'm sure!