Hydrogen buses?

[tigerroar]

Are these common? I saw this at London Bridge yesterday.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Yeah it looks like it, Lothian Buses and First Aberdeen have them as well...

 

[Volvodart]

Apart from London, they are only to be in Aberdeen with First (4) and Stagecoach (6), although not yet in use and it could be November when they are. Only the First ones are here yet.

 

[Panda]

In London, I believe they are only used on the RV1 route. Hybrid double deckers are becoming quite common now in London (my first time I thought the engine cut out, but it was just going downhill and didn't need to use it).

 

[90019]

Yeah it looks like it, Lothian Buses and First Aberdeen have them as well...

It's only diesel electric hybrid buses at Lothian.

 

[Deerfold]

Are these common? I saw this at London Bridge yesterday.

There's 8 in London, exactly enough for route RV1. There's no spares though so when they're out of action you get all sorts on the route.

 

[341o2]

nothing new. During WW2 (perhaps a thread should be started regarding transportation during the world wars) buses and lorries were coverted to gas because fuel was at a premium.

Southampton has some gas powered buses. They proudly state zero emmissions

 

[jopsuk]

"gas" buses during WW2 would presumably have been running on coal gas- a mix of hydrogen, carbon monoxide ethylene and methane- produced at the local gas works.

Buses running on what we now call "gas" (methane, mainly) won't be true "zero emissions"- they'll still have tail pipe CO2 emissions, though much less than the equivalent diesel, and will be much closer to zero on CO, NOx and sulphur compounds.

Hydrogen fuel cells will only emit water vapour.

Some will quibble about the power used to produce the hydrogen. They'll ignore the vast amounts of electricity used by refineries for hydrocarbons. Some refineries use so much power they have their own, large, coal powered or gas powered generation stations. The emissions from refining and transporting petrochemicals are never factored into the efficiency of petrol and diesel vehicles, yet always seem to be brought up for electric and hydrogen vehicles.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Yeah it looks like it, Lothian Buses and First Aberdeen have them as well...

Stagecoach Sunderland took delivery of some gas E300s in February, I don't know if they're out in service yet.

 

[mbonwick]

They are.

Hydrogen vehicles will never take off until lots of green energy is available (probably from nuclear power). I'm sure I read somewhere that it takes more energy to create and store hydrogen than can be recovered from 'burning' it.

 

[freetoview33]

I started to read about this last night and over the last few years some very big advances have been made, so it is getting much closer.

 

[jopsuk]

I'm sure I read somewhere that it takes more energy to create and store hydrogen than can be recovered from 'burning' it.

This is true of petrol and diesel as well. Liquid/gaseous fuels, be they fossil fuel or otherwise, are useful only because they're transportable and easily converted into power.

 

[daikilo]

This is true of petrol and diesel as well. Liquid/gaseous fuels, be they fossil fuel or otherwise, are useful only because they're transportable and easily converted into power.

Jopsuk, in an earlier post you distinguished between the coal gas of WW2 (and CNG or LNG today) used in modified compression engines, and the fuel cells that can use hydrogen. This is probably the most important technical difference. Even if the buses look similar outside, the power generation is quite different.

 

[fgwrich]

Jopsuk, in an earlier post you distinguished between the coal gas of WW2 (and CNG or LNG today) used in modified compression engines, and the fuel cells that can use hydrogen. This is probably the most important technical difference. Even if the buses look similar outside, the power generation is quite different.

It certainly can depend on the type of fuel as you say, as well as the type of vehicle.

So far, the different powered vehicles I am aware of here in the uk are (apart from Hybrids):

Arriva's Milton Keynes / Bletchley based Wrightbus Streetlights which use on street electric charging pads

First and Stagecoach Aberdeen's Vanhool bodied Hydrogen Buses - Joint venture which will see several operated by First and Stagecoach around Aberdeen.

19 Compressed Natural Gas Scania / Alex Dennis Enviro 300s for Reading Buses. Which Reading Buses get their gas either from the mains for or I think... from the former Landfill site to the south of Reading. There rather impressive vehicles internally, more akin to a Wrightbus product than standard ADL. Reading Buses has also produced a FAQ page for their CNG powered vehicles.
http://www.reading-buses.co.uk/cng-faqs/


Those Wrightbus vehicles as spotted in the first picture have been around for a while though, as they replaced the 3 original Hydrogen Fuel Cell Merc Citaro's originally trialled on the RV1.

Fuel cell hybrid trials start

The first of five Wrightbus hydrogen hybrid fuel cell single-deckers has started trials at the Millbrook Proving Ground in Bedfordshire, where it will undergo safety and performance checks before it enters service in London later this year. The five buses will be operated by First on route RV1, travelling between Covent Garden and Tower Hill.

Mike Weston, operations director for London Buses, says: “London faces many environmental challenges but we believe alternative fuels, such as hydrogen, will bring genuine long-term benefits in tackling CO2 emissions. The arrival of the first hydrogen hybrid fuel cell bus marks an exciting new chapter for London Buses as we embrace new technologies to further build on the excellent work we are doing to improve air quality for Londoners.”

The RV1 is the service on which TfL trialled three Mercedes-Benz Citaro fuel cell buses between 2005 and 2007. These, too, were operated by First.

http://www.busandcoach.com/newspage.aspx?id=4047&categoryid=0