Hunts cross Interchange

[185143]

Am I right in assuming that the minimum connection time at HNX is 5 mins?

Tickets used:
1 Child Anytime Day Return BWD-LPY @£4.00
1 Child NorthWirral Lines ME Day saver @£2.35

This is what happened today. (I was covering all of the Wirral and Northern Lines)

I travelled on the 09:03 from Birchwood, due into HNX at 09:30. This is an interchange shown on Northern Rail's website. The 09:03 however arrived into Hunts Cross 7 minutes late meaning that I missed the connection. I had to wait 15 minutes for the next train and by the time I had finished the network, due to having an additional 15 minute wait at Hooton for an ELP train, I finished 30 minutes behind my plans.

Will I have cause to write to Northern about this delay, and how much compensation would I expect to receive (If any) as the interchange is shown here:
Online Journey Details

Journey from Birchwood (BWD) to Liverpool Central (LVC)
Departing Birchwood (BWD) 09:03
Arriving at Liverpool Central (LVC) 09:53
Duration of travel 0h 50m
Number of changes 1
Back to Journey Planner
Journey Details

Leg 1 of 2
Birchwood (BWD) to Hunts Cross (HNX) on Thursday 18th July 2013
Departs Arrives Duration
09:03 09:30 0h 27m
Travel by Train with Northern Rail

Leg 2 of 2
Hunts Cross (HNX) to Liverpool Central (LVC) on Thursday 18th July 2013
Departs Arrives Duration
09:36 09:53 0h 17m
Travel by Train with Merseyrail

 

[156441]

Aside from bashing trains did the delay cause any problem to your day that you feel requires compensating?

I'm sorry to rant but I feel we're all ready to jump on the compensation band wagon at every given chance. These little bits claimed back add up to millions each year to the TOCs which 'could' be plowed back into the economy.

In answer to your question I don't believe you'll be able to claim any compensation anyway as your original train (the northern service) goes to Liverpool South Parkway so you'd have only been 7 minutes late as far as northern are concerned.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
What is amusing is we are supposed to announce LPY as the official interchange to Merseyrail services.

 

[185143]

The guard even announced 'shortly arriving into Hunts Cross. Change for Merseyrail services!

 

[yorkie]

I finished 30 minutes behind my plans.

Will I have cause to write to Northern about this delay, and how much compensation would I expect to receive (If any)

http://www.northernrail.org/northern/passengerscharter/ifthingsgowrong

No, and £0.

If a delay to a Northern service adds an hour or more to your journey, we will offer you National Rail travel vouchers to the value of at least 50% of the fare you paid for that journey.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Aside from bashing trains did the delay cause any problem to your day that you feel requires compensating?

I'm sorry to rant but I feel we're all ready to jump on the compensation band wagon at every given chance.

I don't think that's fair. People ask us for accurate advice, and they do deserve an accurate answer. If a TOC feels that passengers should be compensated and is prepared to compensate, then no-one should make people feel bad about that.

These little bits claimed back add up to millions each year to the TOCs which 'could' be plowed back into the economy.

Well, I could talk about how little bits of overcharging that TOCs do, add up to a lot of money that they are unfairly taking off passengers which would otherwise be ploughed back into the economy... It is not uncommon that people are sold more expensive tickets than they need, or charged excess fares unnecessarily. But this is going wildly off-topic!

In answer to your question I don't believe you'll be able to claim any compensation anyway as your original train (the northern service) goes to Liverpool South Parkway so you'd have only been 7 minutes late as far as northern are concerned.

His journey was 30 minutes late, but Northern do not give compensation for a 30 minute delay to a journey.

 

[mister-sparky]

His journey was 30 minutes late, but Northern do not give compensation for a 30 minute delay to a journey.

The actual service in question was only 7 minutes late however. That's the only one they'd count, and rightly so. No TOC would offer compensation for 7 minutes, they'd all go bankrupt because they'd lose millions every week.

 

[causton]

The actual service in question was only 7 minutes late however. That's the only one they'd count, and rightly so. No TOC would offer compensation for 7 minutes, they'd all go bankrupt because they'd lose millions every week.

I don't think you understand how connections work.

 

[transmanche]

The actual service in question was only 7 minutes late however. That's the only one they'd count, and rightly so. No TOC would offer compensation for 7 minutes, they'd all go bankrupt because they'd lose millions every week.

Not relevant.

Just this week I have received compensation from Virgin, because one of their trains was 7 mins late. This meant I missed my connection onto an ATW service, meaning I was over an hour late at my ultimate destination. Under Delay Repay, I got a 100% refund of my advance ticket, because my overall journey was delayed by more than an hour.

 

[yorkie]

The actual service in question was only 7 minutes late however.

I repeat: it's based on journey.

That's the only one they'd count, and rightly so.

No.

No TOC would offer compensation for 7 minutes, they'd all go bankrupt because they'd lose millions every week.

TOCs are heavily subsidised, but very little of the money goes to paying passengers compensation. TOCs receive far more money in compensation from Network Rail. Our 'compensation culture' is a net earner for TOCs!

 

[greatkingrat]

Even if Northern did pay compensation for 30 minutes delays - I am not sure this situation would count. Surely if trying to claim for a delay, you are under an obligation to use the quickest route, and if you choose to go on a tour of the network along the way, that is not the responsibility of the TOC.

 

[maniacmartin]

Indeed. You deliberately further delayed yourself by exploring the whole network, when you presumably could have taken more direct trains directly to your final destination.

 

[156441]

Your first ticket would be the only one Northern would be interested in.

'Birchwood to Liverpool Sth Parkway'.

You got off a train which was going to this destination and was 7 minutes late and created a delay for yourself by changing to Miseryrail.

No claim - move along please.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Even if Northern did pay compensation for 30 minutes delays - I am not sure this situation would count. Surely if trying to claim for a delay, you are under an obligation to use the quickest route, and if you choose to go on a tour of the network along the way, that is not the responsibility of the TOC.

Indeed. You deliberately further delayed yourself by exploring the whole network, when you presumably could have taken more direct trains directly to your final destination.

Journey times according to NRES for travel this morning

Op travelled Birchwood to Hunts cross arriving late at 0937, missing the 0936 service.

Times for the train the op was on (not accounting for the train delay):

Hunts Cross dep. 0930 (train)
L'pool L. St. arr. 0953
L'pool L. St. dep. 0953 (Walk)
L'pool Central arr. 1015

Duration - 45 mins

Times for his alternative:

Hunts Cross dep. 0951 (train)
L'pool Central arr. 1008

Duration - 17 minutes

So as you can see it is much, much, much, much longer via Merseyrail.:roll:

Your first ticket would be the only one Northern would be interested in.

'Birchwood to Liverpool Sth Parkway'.

You got off a train which was going to this destination and was 7 minutes late and created a delay for yourself by changing to Miseryrail.

No claim - move along please.

The only part of that which is true is the last sentence, but this is because the delay to the journey was under an hour, which does not fit within the criteria of the Passenger's Charter.

 

[yorkie]

Your first ticket would be the only one Northern would be interested in.

'Birchwood to Liverpool Sth Parkway'.

I have no idea why you are saying that?

The journey was Birchwood to Liverpool Central.

You got off a train which was going to this destination and was 7 minutes late and created a delay for yourself by changing to Miseryrail.

The train was not going to his destination.

I do agree that many people would walk from Lime St, if they realised that they were going to incur a further delay, but I don't think that's relevant.

No claim - move along please.

No claim, yes, but only because Northern do not compensate for a delay of this length.

 

[156441]

Because the OP advises he has split tickets the first being from Birchwood to Liverpool South Parkway the second being a Merseyrail day ranger.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I usually am) but his claim with Northern would end at LPY as this is where his ticket for that journey would end?

If he had continued on the original train he would have made LPY around 7 minutes late as far as Northern are concerned. However he chose to end his journey at HNX to start on his day ranger?

 

[IanD]

Correct me if I'm wrong...

A number of people have already done so.

 

[bb21]

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I usually am) but his claim with Northern would end at LPY as this is where his ticket for that journey would end?

Condition 19 of the NRCoC states:

19. Using a combination of tickets

You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:
(a) they are both Zonal Tickets unless special conditions prohibit their use in this way. The Ticket Seller will, if you ask, advise you whether you can use a Zonal Ticket in combination with another ticket.
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one ticket to another;
or (c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.

The OP's ticket combination satisfies 19(b). His journey does not end at Hunts Cross.

 

[156441]

Well I stand corrected and will STFU then!! Haha!
You live and learn!

 

[34D]

Am I right in assuming that the minimum connection time at HNX is 5 mins?

Tickets used:
1 Child Anytime Day Return BWD-LPY @£4.00
1 Child NorthWirral Lines ME Day saver @£2.35

But £2.35 is the cost of the all zones child day saver: source http://www.merseyrail.org/tickets-passes/daily-travel/day-saver.aspx

This being the case, said ticket is valid on northern and tpe anyway, thereby meaning 156441 is wrong again?

 

[yorkie]

Well I stand corrected and will STFU then!! Haha!
You live and learn!

No problem

What matters is that people are willing to learn. Some aren't, and that does cause problems!

It's also a shame that most TOCs do not provide proper training opportunities, meaning many staff can only learn the NRCoC if they put their own time into it, which isn't really fair IMO. Though having to spend your own time to do the job well applies to a lot of jobs I suppose (mine included).

But £2.35 is the cost of the all zones child day saver: source http://www.merseyrail.org/tickets-passes/daily-travel/day-saver.aspx

This being the case, said ticket is valid on northern and tpe anyway, thereby meaning 156441 is wrong again?

I don't think 156441 is saying the ticket isn't valid on TPE/Northern?

 

[vjm1975]

The Northwirral lines Daysaver mentioned is a Merseyrail only ticket. Not to be confused with the Saveaway, which is £4.80 adult and £2.50 child, and would be valid on Northern & TPE within the applicable boundaries

 

[34D]

The Northwirral lines Daysaver mentioned is a Merseyrail only ticket. Not to be confused with the Saveaway, which is £4.80 adult and £2.50 child, and would be valid on Northern & TPE within the applicable boundaries

Happy to apologise if I'm wrong, however http://www.merseyrail.org/tickets-passes/daily-travel/day-saver.aspx suggests that the saveaway is for train/bus/boat and the Daysaver a rail only version of that.

The Daysaver validity map at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/prc6fc299b2143ba87026168f6f4c4d3.aspx includes a route that northern operate on, though I do acknowledge that the operator list just says Merseyrail. How is such a ticket printed?

Can you clarify and site a source, please?

 

[AntoniC]

I have attached the .PDF from the Merseyrail website which explains all about the Saveaway.

As 34D says, its a ticket that gives you unlimited travel on bus/ferry/trains within the Merseyside area AND also covers you by train only to Ormskirk and Chester which are on the Merseyrail network.

The Northern Rail point is because Merseyrail operate NO services from Liverpool Lime Street on the City line, all those services are Northern Rail or TPE.

The tickets from stations are printed on orange/yellow stock, tickets from other sources are off the scratch off variety.

Hope this helps !

 

[vjm1975]

Can assure you the Merseyrail day saver is for Merseyrail Northern & Wirral line servicess only, hence the name of the ticket Northwirral lines. The whole issue is open to confusion as the wording of literature is confusing, and also the City Line is branded as Merseyrail but isnt run by Merseyrail. The Merseyrail day saver is not valid on Northern/EMT or TPE.

The validity map shows Merseyrail only routes, though oddly does show the beginning of the branch from Bidston of the ATW service to Wrexham, on which the ticket would not be valid. Also shows Liverpool South Parkway to Hunts X, but as part of the Northern Line. But to anyone unfamiliar with the Merseyrail network, that may not be obvious looking at the validity map on NRE

 

[34D]

What is actually printed on this ticket, please?

Precisely (or a scan) if possible

 

[tony_mac]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=73646

The Merseyrail City line thing is generally quite unclear. The stations are branded Merseyrail, the 'route' is branded Merseyrail, but they don't operate any of the services or manage any of the stations.
i.e. it has nothing to do with the TOC which is also called Merseyrail and has the same logo.

Merseyrail City Line trains are operated by Northern Rail.

http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/travelling-around/timetables/train-timetables/Pages/Merseyrail-City-Line.aspx

 

[bb21]

Someone at the PTE requires a lesson in how not to cause confusion.

 

[34D]

The reason I'd like to see such a DaySaver ticket is to establish whether NRCOC clause 10 is complied with:

"10. Tickets valid only in trains of particular Train Companies The validity of a ticket may: a) b) be restricted to; or prohibit travel in the trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies. Any such restriction or prohibition will be shown on the ticket. If you travel in a train with a ticket that is not valid, the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply. If you are unable to use a ticket or any part of it, you may be able to claim a refund under Condition 26 or Condition 36."

Though with a pte and toc with very similar names, this may be hard to detect.