Hull Trains 180s

[rustbucket]

Must be hurting - the last couple of days even the 18.50 from Kings Cross has been cancelled and that's the heaviest loaded train of the day

Looking at the schedules it would appear they only have one functioning 180 at the moment

I remember a few years ago they had an 86 and LHCS at weekends due to a shortage of 222s - desperate times call for desperate measures!

 

[rustbucket]

365s + 57 last-mile haulage?

Unlikely - they are in very fast paths the Hull Trains services with a lot of 125mph running between London and Grantham - average speed on that stretch is over 100mph when you look at the distance and time

 

[D365]

Unlikely - they are in very fast paths the Hull Trains services with a lot of 125mph running between London and Grantham - average speed on that stretch is over 100mph when you look at the distance and time

Apologies, that was an attempted joke based on the “Class 442” of yore.

 

[adrock1976]

While on the topic of Class 180s, is 180104 (former Great Western) been transferred to Hull Trains or Grand Central?

 

[BestWestern]

Yes, whilst there was no obligation for HT to release the 222s (they could have said 'go away'), a deal was made. If the right money changes hands, issues get resolved!

And indeed if Firstgroup wanted to win any more franchises, it would have been a fairly easy decision to make!

 

[D2007wsm]

Ex GWR 2+5 HSTs?

 

[Domh245]

While on the topic of Class 180s, is 180104 (former Great Western) been transferred to Hull Trains or Grand Central?

Hull trains didn't take on any additional 180s, they all went to GC.

 

[adrock1976]

Hull trains didn't take on any additional 180s, they all went to GC.

Thanks for clearing that up. 104 is my final one required for haulage.

 

[humbersidejim]

It looks they're now running on 2 working units - good to see the peak time services are going through to KX again:

https://www.hulltrains.co.uk/latest-travel-advice-for-hull-trains/

Hopefully another will be fixed before Monday, but I assume the one that tanked at Pbroro is still a long way off.

Does anyone know what the availability of GC 180s is currently? It looks like HT ended up in such a pickle this week because GC couldn't or wouldn't hire out any of theirs.

 

[westv]

Must be hurting - the last couple of days even the 18.50 from Kings Cross has been cancelled and that's the heaviest loaded train of the day

That and the 06:26 from Hull I'd imagine.

 

[Chester1]

Would a 5 coach HST set be able to match 180 timings? If yes then an obvious emergency solution would be for GWR to delay sending one set off lease and lend its sister company 2 power cars and 5 carriages.

 

[humbersidejim]

Would a 5 coach HST set be able to match 180 timings? If yes then an obvious emergency solution would be for GWR to delay sending one set off lease and lend its sister company 2 power cars and 5 carriages.

Anything's possible, but I would imagine the time and cost of staff training would outweigh the possible gains, it sounds like they should be back up to three 180s next week. Hopefully GC will be again in a position to hire out next time something like this occurs.

 

[DarloRich]

I mean that's one way of describing an engine chewing itself up into oblivion but it's not perhaps how I'd describe it

in fairness there was an almighty leak - after the engine parts had decided they didn't like either each other or the case they were held in and decided to explore, quickly, the outside world

 

[Chester1]

Anything's possible, but I would imagine the time and cost of staff training would outweigh the possible gains, it sounds like they should be back up to three 180s next week. Hopefully GC will be again in a position to hire out next time something like this occurs.

Thats a good point. GC doesn't desperately need to run any double sets so it could probably lend 1 unit to HT 24/7 until the HT 800s arrive, presuming that they are making enough money from it. They have replaced 3 x 6 coach HSTs with 4 x 5 coach 180s.

 

[Failed Unit]

Thats a good point. GC doesn't desperately need to run any double sets so it could probably lend 1 unit to HT 24/7 until the HT 800s arrive, presuming that they are making enough money from it. They have replaced 3 x 6 coach HSTs with 4 x 5 coach 180s.

What we don’t know is how many of GCs 180s have suffered the same issue as HT. they may be short of serviceable trains themselves. Don’t know of course but putting a viewpoint over

 

[BestWestern]

Would a 5 coach HST set be able to match 180 timings? If yes then an obvious emergency solution would be for GWR to delay sending one set off lease and lend its sister company 2 power cars and 5 carriages.

GWR are highly unlikely to have the option of delaying sending HSTs off lease if they're due elsewhere (i.e. Scotrail). It's a done deal, and the Scots are unlikely to be overly concerned about the woes of Hull Trains!

 

[Chester1]

GWR are highly unlikely to have the option of delaying sending HSTs off lease if they're due elsewhere (i.e. Scotrail). It's a done deal, and the Scots are unlikely to be overly concerned about the woes of Hull Trains!

Are all GWR units going to Scotland or being short formed for Devon and Cornwall? I thought it was roughly 3/4 with 1/4 going off lease? Its irrelevant when HT are only one unit short, GC don't need their extra unit yet and the problem ends when the first HT 800 arrives.

 

[WillPS]

The 180s really are troublesome units aren't they. What's the plan for the Hull Trains ones after they go off lease? Are Grand Central getting the whole lot?

 

[Chester1]

The 180s really are troublesome units aren't they. What's the plan for the Hull Trains ones after they go off lease? Are Grand Central getting the whole lot?

No plan atm but Modern Railways reported last month that GC are preparing an application for Cleethorpes services by splitting Bradford services at Doncaster from 2019. The 4 HT units would be the right amount to do this and double up some Sunderland services. From the roscos perspective it would be good to have all 14 class 180s with one ToC. ORR only rejected GCs last Cleethorpes application because it was dependant on the proposed Bradford via Leeds service which they ruled primarily abstractive, they stated they would have approved a stand alone Cleethorpes application so they should approve one if the MR story is true.

 

[Mollman]

Are all GWR units going to Scotland or being short formed for Devon and Cornwall? I thought it was roughly 3/4 with 1/4 going off lease? Its irrelevant when HT are only one unit short, GC don't need their extra unit yet and the problem ends when the first HT 800 arrives.

There will be some not going to ScotRail or staying with GWR but by the time they come off lease the 802s will have arrived at Hull Trains.

 

[greyman42]

Where is the badly damaged 180 and is there a date for its return to service.

 

[Parallel]

I thought the Hull Trains 180s have superior reliability after a lot of work was spent more or less rebuilding them? The GWR ones had the least miles per fault. I can’t remember where I saw this information but it was on this forum. I also distinctly remember that SWT’s 159s were the most reliable of the sprinter classes.

 

[rustbucket]

That and the 06:26 from Hull I'd imagine.

The 06.26 is full - but the 18.50 is always full AND standing!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Thats a good point. GC doesn't desperately need to run any double sets so it could probably lend 1 unit to HT 24/7 until the HT 800s arrive, presuming that they are making enough money from it. They have replaced 3 x 6 coach HSTs with 4 x 5 coach 180s.

HT are receiving 802s.
GC received five 180s.

 

[Chester1]

HT are receiving 802s.
GC received five 180s.

Thanks. GC could potentially loan 2 units then.

 

[TheWalrus]

I wouldn’t have thought they would look at any new or different stock between now and end of next year if they are getting new 802s anyway.

 

[rustbucket]

Thanks. GC could potentially loan 2 units then.

Could be tight with breakdowns as GC are also going through a refurbished program

 

[alexl92]

Could GC not hire in a couple of HSTs given that their staff are probably still cleared to operate them, and then hire out 180s to HT? That would surely be the quickest solution for all parties, if any of the HST operators can spare them.

 

[BestWestern]

Could GC not hire in a couple of HSTs given that their staff are probably still cleared to operate them, and then hire out 180s to HT? That would surely be the quickest solution for all parties, if any of the HST operators can spare them.

Nobody has any spare HSTs. It's also likely that GC crew will have removed the traction from their 'cards' and thus would need to re-sign them.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Perhaps HT should use 170s. Oh....wait.....