Hello all, I pass through the tunnels to the west of Huddersfield station nearly every day but I have a few questions about their history. It looks like there used to be entrances to both sides of the current entrances from the station. One of these looks to be from the siding that has an old carriage in it next to platform 2. Did these exist and where did they go? Also was the tunnel nearest the station a cut and cover? I ask this because from Satellite view it looks like nothing has been built directly above the route of the tunnel.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Huddersfield Tunnels
- Thread starter ajdunlop
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
The old carriage sits in the former platform 3. Access to the bay was lost when the road above was widened.
The two tunnels wers 2 track each as the route through ztandedge tunnel was 4 track until Diggle where the micklehurst loop diverges - this rejoins the route at Stalybridge
The two tunnels wers 2 track each as the route through ztandedge tunnel was 4 track until Diggle where the micklehurst loop diverges - this rejoins the route at Stalybridge
Last edited:
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Correction, the carriage is in the original platform 2- the current P2 was created in the late 1980s when platform one was widened into the trackbed of the original P1 track. The goods line became the new P1 line and the stub of the original became P2. P3 was at the Leeds end of P1 near the former stable block, and seemed to mostly be used for mail traffic and to stable (No pun intended!) spare locos in LHCS days.
Ploughman
Established Member
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
Yes of course. Forgot about that rather obvious bay next to the water tank!
Ah ok, thanks for that. Given that the tunnel that carries the westward line and the Penistone line has room for two lines could the other tunnel have two again or is it to small for modern gauges etc?
In other words if the other Standedge tunnels were reopened could 4 track be reinstated all they way to Dingle again without masses of reengineering of structures?
In other words if the other Standedge tunnels were reopened could 4 track be reinstated all they way to Dingle again without masses of reengineering of structures?
Ploughman
Established Member
The major problem is that during the 80's the line from Huddersfield to Marsden was drastically realigned as part of the dequadrification to increase line speeds.
This would all need to be undone and as a result speeds may drop.
Unless additional land take was available.
This would all need to be undone and as a result speeds may drop.
Unless additional land take was available.
Wilts Wanderer
Established Member
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2016
- Messages
- 3,199
Marsden to Huddersfield is the fastest stretch of the Manchester-Leeds route I believe; 85mph?
The quadruple track was removed long before then, but the remaining pair of tracks was left in place until a lot of it came due for renewal - east of Huddersfield as well as west - coinciding with the desire to increase speed limits.
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
Its only as high as 85mph inside Marsden/Standedge tunnel.
The Line limit is 85mph in the eastbound direction through Standedge Tunnel and Marsden to Longwood, 45mph round the curves at Marsden, also 85 mph westbound in Standedge Tunnel 75 mph uphill westbound Longwood to Marsden. The bricked up tunnel portal seen at the end of platform 2 at Huddersfield was "bricked up" when the current platform 2 was brought into use when the current platform 1 was extended outward (probably when they resignalled the area in 1990's). The bridge over the tracks at the west end of Huddersfield station was strengthened and it wasn't anything to do with the "bricked" up tunnel arch. This is the bridge immedately before the tunnel. The north tunnel at Huddersfield & Springwood was singled after coaches started to scrape the tunnel side after the track had moved. Platform 2 is to be extended by moving the signal and shortening platform 1. The length will be to take a 3 car 23 metre train although it is planned to use 3 car 150's which are too long for the current platform so work will have to be done before the introduction of 150's.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Would it be possible to re-open the original platform 2 with access through the bricked up bits and lengthen platform 1 by extending it out over the current platform 2?
Why would you want to lengthen P1?
You can already fit pretty much any train in the north of England onto it already.
P4 is the one that needs sorting out, when 4 car trains terminate / start to or from say Manchester, the whole train is next to the PIS's for both P4a and P4b, so as the Crews seem to think it's beneath them to put the correct destinations on the front / back, it looks as though the train is going to Leeds or Bradford, when in fact it is going the opposite direction. This is caused by the points and corresponding signal being about quarter of the way up the platform. So any trains reversing from the west, have to have their rear about 1/4 way up the platform.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
It gets suggested frequently on here that TPE needs longer trains instead of more. Idly wondering if P1 can be extended towards the tunnel and the furthest platform (I forget the number at present) could be extended onto the viaduct by losing the sidings.
Why would we need 10 car trains?
And the trains that start / finish at Huddersfield, where would they be stored over night?
Last edited:
And then all the other platforms will need doing too.
Where is this money-tree planted?
edwin_m
Veteran Member
We don't know what Northern Powerhouse will want to do, but it's conceivable it could come down to a choice between lengthening the platforms at Huddersfield or not stopping there at all.
Anything is possible, but that is likely to be more expensive than a new, modern route. Therefore we can practicably rule it out.
I believe the NWR plan is to restore four tracks from Huddersfield east as far as Ravensthorpe, but keep to double track only west of Huddersfield.
YorkshireBear
Established Member
- Joined
- 23 Jul 2010
- Messages
- 9,666
Yep, that was a current thought mentioned during recent presentations at the PWI. Including further grade separation along that section to keep things moving at junctions.
NOT MENTIONED but i have heard it elsewhere is the idea of adding an extra island where the sidings are to better facilitate terminating trains not getting in the way when they are all lengthened. Ie to address the current inadequacies with the terminating platforms. It will all depend on how the four tracks look. Ie pair of slows and fasts or fasts in middle of slows.
This is all outside of Northern Powerhouse Rail and is likely to happen regardless of any new line plans due to predicted growth and the remaining need for semi fast trains at Dewsbury and Huddersfield even if HS3 is built.
Well, we all can see that there is ZERO chance of that happening. Unless there are no stops whatsoever between Manchester and Leeds.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
And why do you think Manchester-Leeds non-stop is so unlikely?
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
I have heared rumblings of construction of a platform 9 being mentioned too.
Shaw S Hunter
Established Member
Amongst all the chatter about Northern Powerhouse are suggestions that a Leeds to Manchester time of 30 minutes could be a worthwhile aspiration. If that were taken forward then a new route, mostly in tunnel, would be the only way to achieve it. And it should be obvious that such a route would not serve Huddersfield. edwin_m's point is perfectly valid.
So you think that entirely new tunnels would be cheaper through the Pennines, than re-using the two single bores?
Probably because every single train at the moment is considered worth stopping there.
Well, maybe you can tell us all where the money tree is planted then?
Why do we need to save barely 15, and spend tens of billions?
The stupid thing about these high speed lines is that those not served directly by them, see their journey times increased.
Surely a London direct service is still on the cards as well, which might necessitate capacity improvements? Not sure on how well the paths align, but a route on the current GC path would take about 2h45, and on the MML about 3h10 which are both quite reasonable.
Shaw S Hunter
Established Member
One of the key principles of the Northern Powerhouse is to create an economic centre capable of providing a greater degree of balance with London and the South East. The two most important individual such centres in the north are Leeds and Manchester (and by some margin). To provide this counterbalance to L&SE it has been suggested it is necessary to promote the idea of "agglomeration" across the north, essentially to bring places closer together to reduce business costs and that faster transport links are key to achieving this. Hence the talk of a 30 minute journey time. Ultimately it comes down to how you think investment in infrastructure, and transport in particular, should be spread: wide and thin or concentrated as big-bang projects in specific places. It's certainly not a new argument!
- Status