HSTs in retirement

[Peter Kelford]

Someone raised the idea of enthusiasts clubbing together (using a crowdfunding scheme, as is the modern way) to purchase a full-length HST. I wonder if this is viable, considering the fact that the HST technicians will most likely carry on working for the same company, just doing Class 800s or what-not, unlike steam railwaymen who were out of work. Your opinions, please!

 

[sprinterguy]

Welcome to the forum.

Are you aware of the aims and objectives of the 125 Group?
www.125group.org.uk/about-us

"We will do everything we can to meet our commitment to preserve an HST in as near to original configuration as possible. Our dream is to save a pair of power cars with Valenta engines and a selection of trailer cars. As the only group with an interest in HSTs we are working to build up sufficient funds in order to purchase and maintain in working order an example of the train which formed the backbone of InterCity services during its distinguished career."

That'd be the direction in which to focus any funding and support.

 

[Peter Kelford]

Didn't know that, no.

 

[DarloRich]

Welcome to the forum.

Are you aware of the aims and objectives of the 125 Group?
www.125group.org.uk/about-us

"We will do everything we can to meet our commitment to preserve an HST in as near to original configuration as possible. Our dream is to save a pair of power cars with Valenta engines and a selection of trailer cars. As the only group with an interest in HSTs we are working to build up sufficient funds in order to purchase and maintain in working order an example of the train which formed the backbone of InterCity services during its distinguished career."

That'd be the direction in which to focus any funding and support.

I wonder if they could end up with one of each type of engine?

PS I really should join that group!

 

[Tempest3K]

New members are always welcome http://www.125group.org.uk/group-membership/

@Peter Kelford It might be worth you checking out http://www.125group.org.uk/project-miller/41001s-restoration/ to get an idea of the experience the group has already gained?

 

[alexl92]

What is the likelihood of somewhere like the NYMR buying a shortened set when they’re eventually disposed of, to operate off-peak diesel services through to Whitby? Somewhere near 0%?

 

[Peter Kelford]

No, I'm referring to the production HSTs, not the prototype.

 

[sprinterguy]

No, I'm referring to the production HSTs, not the prototype.

A lot of the skills and experience involved will be directly transferable to preservation of a production train, though.

I wonder if they could end up with one of each type of engine?

I'd hope that they'd aim to restore a pair of production power cars to Valenta condition, personally - If you're going to recreate something, then at least do it properly for enthusiasts present and future to get a real sense of what these trains were like. Although I suppose there is some precedent in having a Valenta PC on one end and a VP185 engined one on the other, in the original VP185 trials in the mid nineties.

 

[sprinterguy]

What is the likelihood of somewhere like the NYMR buying a shortened set when they’re eventually disposed of, to operate off-peak diesel services through to Whitby? Somewhere near 0%?

It's quite an undertaking, preserving a whole train, even a shortened one, two locos plus carriages, in one go: Let alone finding sufficient space to stable and maintain it - even a 2+4 HST formation (and you wouldn't want to go any shorter if you want to ensure decent passenger receipts, presumably) isn't much shorter than a seven carriage mark 1 rake. Quite fuel thirsty things, too: Less so in the 25 - 35mph bracket, no doubt, and I suppose you could just keep one power car running, but if you're going to do that then there's little benefit (other than dispensing with the need to run round) over sourcing a traditional diesel loco and a short carriage rake from the existing fleet.

Never say never, of course, and it's possible that one or more of the more established lines might cherry pick power cars and carriages as money allows to form up a complete rake, but I'd still be looking mainly at the 125 Group to fulfil our future HST requirements in preservation. I can't see many preserved lines being able to support a year round need for an HST set of their own - and bear in mind that the air conditioned mark 3s could suffer issues with moisture over conventionally ventilated stock if laid up for any period of time.

 

[Peter Kelford]

Well, £250 for a 4hr 30min KGX-EDB Pullman Run wouldn't be all that bad, would it? After all, it could somehow revive the spirit of the Scotsman: enjoying a civilised train journey, savouring the means of getting from A to B. A 10:00 departure would be even better...

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What sort of % of the total HST MK3 coach stock was built with short swing link (SSL) bogies? If any HST coaches are going to get preserved it should be ones with SSL bogies, which would allow them to run specials or rail tours in 3rd rail territory

 

[theblackwatch]

What is the likelihood of somewhere like the NYMR buying a shortened set when they’re eventually disposed of, to operate off-peak diesel services through to Whitby? Somewhere near 0%?

The NYMR already have a Class 101 DMU which they have looked at certifying for such duties.

 

[43096]

I wonder if they could end up with one of each type of engine?

Might struggle to find an MB190.....

 

[43096]

What sort of % of the total HST MK3 coach stock was built with short swing link (SSL) bogies? If any HST coaches are going to get preserved it should be ones with SSL bogies, which would allow them to run specials or rail tours in 3rd rail territory

SSL restriction applies to all Mark 3s. 125 Group’s Mark 3s are all SSL except 12092 (which has one SSL and one LSL bogie).

 

[hexagon789]

If any HST coaches are going to get preserved it should be ones with SSL bogies, which would allow them to run specials or rail tours in 3rd rail territory

While I can appreciate that having SSL bogies allows greater route availability, personally I would rather have a set with the original LSL bogies.

 

[alexl92]

While I can appreciate that having SSL bogies allows greater route availability, personally I would rather have a set with the original LSL bogies.

I don’t mean this in an accusatory manner at all, I’m genuinely interested but what difference does it actually make? Is it just the same as some Mk1s riding on B4 bogies and some on commonwealths or is there more to it?

 

[hexagon789]

I don’t mean this in an accusatory manner at all, I’m genuinely interested but what difference does it actually make? Is it just the same as some Mk1s riding on B4 bogies and some on commonwealths or is there more to it?

I don't take it that way at all, really its a matter of personal preference I daresay. Essentially the LSL type are the oReginald type and give the orginal 'silky smooth' rife the Mk3s are renowned for. The SSL while allowing safer use on third-rail equipped lines, gives a poorer lateral ride quality especially on poorer quality track. I doubt most people would notice unless theyou regularly experienced both types on the sane routes regularly. For me I've always felt one of the HSTs legacies is a high ride quality at high speed which has never been matched by any other train and so I would like one LSL set preserved to preserve that silky smooth ride I always enjoyed.

 

[MG11]

Selfishly, I'd love an HST to be repainted in to the old Virgin colours, as that is how they were when I first started riding on them. Maybe Virgin EC will do that in their last weeks of service. Virgin love doing gimmicks like that.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

SSL restriction applies to all Mark 3s. 125 Group’s Mark 3s are all SSL except 12092 (which has one SSL and one LSL bogie).

Could the LSL bogies on 12092 easily be swapped with SSL bogies or is there a lot of work involved with switching from LSL to SSL bogies?

 

[notverydeep]

Might struggle to find an MB190.....

http://www.dieselmarinegroup.com/mirrlees-blackstone-mb190-diesels-generating-set-available-stock/

It is even ex-British Rail, though a computer centre back up generator rather than an HST according to the ad and I have no idea whether all MB190s had the same specifications. Who knows though, perhaps it was from one of the power cars fitted back in the 1980s originally. Anyway, yours for £39,000 apparently!

 

[43096]

Could the LSL bogies on 12092 easily be swapped with SSL bogies or is there a lot of work involved with switching from LSL to SSL bogies?

No different to a standard bogie swap.

 

[43096]

http://www.dieselmarinegroup.com/mirrlees-blackstone-mb190-diesels-generating-set-available-stock/

It is even ex-British Rail, though a computer centre back up generator rather than an HST according to the ad and I have no idea whether all MB190s had the same specifications. Who knows though, perhaps it was from one of the power cars fitted back in the 1980s originally. Anyway, yours for £39,000 apparently!

Not sure why you'd want to preserve an engine of each type. Much harder to support multiple types in terms of knowledge and carrying spares stock. Best just to stick 12RP200Ls back in and make it easier.

 

[alexl92]

I don't take it that way at all, really its a matter of personal preference I daresay. Essentially the LSL type are the oReginald type and give the orginal 'silky smooth' rife the Mk3s are renowned for. The SSL while allowing safer use on third-rail equipped lines, gives a poorer lateral ride quality especially on poorer quality track. I doubt most people would notice unless theyou regularly experienced both types on the sane routes regularly. For me I've always felt one of the HSTs legacies is a high ride quality at high speed which has never been matched by any other train and so I would like one LSL set preserved to preserve that silky smooth ride I always enjoyed.

Fascinating, thank you. I absolutely love the Mk3 ride quality. Did the loco-hauled stock have the same two bogie types?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Selfishly, I'd love an HST to be repainted in to the old Virgin colours, as that is how they were when I first started riding on them. Maybe Virgin EC will do that in their last weeks of service. Virgin love doing gimmicks like that.

Ahh, if only they still ran the XC route... I do love that company!

 

[MG11]

Hi people. I don't want to post a new thread for a quick question, so I'll post it here, it does involve the afterlife of part of an HST actually! Does anyone know what is going to happen to the ex-Virgin MK3 coach at Wabtec Doncaster? Is it owned by Wabtec now? It's been there for years and is visible from the platform at Doncaster. Is it just going to be used to donate spare parts to other coaches and then scrapped?

 

[43096]

Hi people. I don't want to post a new thread for a quick question, so I'll post it here, it does involve the afterlife of part of an HST actually! Does anyone know what is going to happen to the ex-Virgin MK3 coach at Wabtec Doncaster? Is it owned by Wabtec now? It's been there for years and is visible from the platform at Doncaster. Is it just going to be used to donate spare parts to other coaches and then scrapped?

It is being/has been used to test the door modifications that are currently going on on the XC, GWR and ScotRail fleets. Once that use is done it will probably end up in the bin.

 

[MG11]

It is being/has been used to test the door modifications that are currently going on on the XC, GWR and ScotRail fleets. Once that use is done it will probably end up in the bin.

Oh, thank you for confirming.

 

[Darandio]

Ahh, if only they still ran the XC route... I do love that company!

Well, given we are talking about painting an HST in the original colours then we can reminisce about how wonderful Virgin XC was back then. Severely reduced maintenance regimes on the HST and loco hauled fleet, multiple failures and cancellations, dirty trains, poor/reduced service provision. Wonderful.

Some would argue that we are seeing it all again right now on the East Coast, or will see it increasingly in the next 12-18 months.

 

[snakeeyes]

Might struggle to find an MB190.....

What's that?

 

[TBirdFrank]

XC - someone loves XC! If ever a company wanted wrapping up and sending back to Belgium its Bombardier who visited those awful things on us and DB/Arriva who don't seem to realise that passengers like seats and room for luggage too!

A beeter reason to drive does not exist!