HST power car on fire at Penzance

[Raul_Duke]

I find the roofs are a good indication of condition. Some of the Mk 3s are more patching than original steel on the roof!

I’m pretty sure there are undiscovered antibiotics growing around the inside of the can window seals.

 

[ArchieWoodbine]

I’m pretty sure there are undiscovered antibiotics growing around the inside of the can window seals.

I once encountered a driver who used to lay antibacterial hand-wipes over every instrument he was likely to touch. Possibly a bit OCD, but to an extent I don't blame him!

 

[nat67]

Wonder if this relates to them going, so it doesn't matter.

I guess not as it was the maintenance being neglected as I stated. So with them going is nothing to do with the fires just the DFT ordering more Diesel Electro trains which is pointless.

 

[nat67]

Ok, but the way it is worded you made it sound like the cordoning off of certain seats was permanent and/or structure related. I've given 1 example where this would be the case, but the majority of time it will be due to 'passenger action' which no TOC can control.

That sounds right, (normals) bracking things.

 

[co-tr-paul]

Set still on depot. Turbo related but cause still not known. MTU to investigate. Not a usual case !

 

[43096]

I guess not as it was the maintenance being neglected as I stated. So with them going is nothing to do with the fires just the DFT ordering more Diesel Electro trains which is pointless.

I do hope you have some evidence that maintenance is being neglected and that you are not posting opinion/rumour/wibble as fact.

 

[341o2]

The Penzance route will be the last to go over to 802 operation, so HSTs are going to be around well into 2019

Thanks

 

[co-tr-paul]

57605 leaving Long Rock with the dead set 1000 ish to Plymouth.

 

[nat67]

I do hope you have some evidence that maintenance is being neglected and that you are not posting opinion/rumour/wibble as fact.

Well all the other TOC's that operate HST's haven't had the same problem's so its like they don't give two hoots any more.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Well all the other TOC's that operate HST's haven't had the same problem's so its like they don't give two hoots any more.

Oh come on now, read what co-tr-paul posted above, posting #36!

 

[nat67]

Oh come on now, read what co-tr-paul posted above, posting #36!

OK so its not the exhaust and not electrical, but its not that I no of happened to the other TOC's, but that could be my speculation though. I have seen in photos that you see a hole behind to exhaust cowling and fans so the turbo.

 

[CC 72100]

Well all the other TOC's that operate HST's haven't had the same problem's so its like they don't give two hoots any more.

Pretty serious but also baseless I imagine allegation?!

 

[nat67]

Pretty serious but also baseless I imagine allegation?!

Yes I guess but it was true with the 86's and 87's on WCML as they ran them down and to me it seems the same way with the GWR HST's. I can understand that the allegations are serious but as I say it's not happened to any other HST TOC's. May be its MTU that's the cause. (not trying to suggest or blame just possibilities).

 

[CC 72100]

I can understand 'running down' of some of the customer systems (ie. Nothing that affects safe running of a train) but I don't think that in 2018 on the UK railway no company would run down maintenance on something that has the potential to catch fire.

Other TOCs may not have had power car fires, true, but the GWR fleet is around 100 power cars now, so even on a purely numbers game they are more likely to suffer.

 

[43096]

Yes I guess but it was true with the 86's and 87's on WCML as they ran them down and to me it seems the same way with the GWR HST's. I can understand that the allegations are serious but as I say it's not happened to any other HST TOC's. May be its MTU that's the cause. (not trying to suggest or blame just possibilities).

Thank you for confirming what I suspected.

 

[cactustwirly]

Well all the other TOC's that operate HST's haven't had the same problem's so its like they don't give two hoots any more.

The GWR fleet is worked harder than VTEC & EMT so you would expect them to look a bit worse cosmetically.
GWR has vastly more HSTs than other TOCs so you would expect design flaws to manifest themselves more in the GWR HSTs.

As the HSTs are being withdrawn is it not common sense that only the bare minimum is being spent on them?

 

[83G/84D]

I would like to travel to Penzance on a HST before they are finally withdrawn, has any announcement been made regarding proposed withdrawal dates?

March 2019 is the planned date by which all full size GWR HST’s will be retired.

 

[nat67]

The GWR fleet is worked harder than VTEC & EMT so you would expect them to look a bit worse cosmetically.
GWR has vastly more HSTs than other TOCs so you would expect design flaws to manifest themselves more in the GWR HSTs.

As the HSTs are being withdrawn is it not common sense that only the bare minimum is being spent on them?

That is true as a percentage and GWR at the moment does like doing the bare minimum.

 

[nat67]

Thank you for confirming what I suspected.

That's ok I dont want to anoy of fellow (HST enthusiasts).

 

[43096]

The GWR fleet is worked harder than VTEC & EMT so you would expect them to look a bit worse cosmetically.

Depends how you are defining "worked harder". More stop/start work on GWR, but VTEC operate longer trains, on higher mileage diagrams than any other HST operator.

 

[cactustwirly]

Depends how you are defining "worked harder". More stop/start work on GWR, but VTEC operate longer trains, on higher mileage diagrams than any other HST operator.

As in GWR have a much higher utilisation of their HSTs, so there's less time to fix minor costmetic faults

 

[43096]

As in GWR have a much higher utilisation of their HSTs, so there's less time to fix minor costmetic faults

You might like to check the facts. From last summer when GWR had a full fleet.
GWR: 53 sets for 48 diagrams (90.6% availability). 119 power cars for 96 diagrams (80.7% availability)
VTEC: 14 sets for 13 diagrams (92.9% availability). 32 power cars for 26 diagrams (81.3% availability)
I have excluded set NL65 from the VTEC numbers as maintenance cover is from the EMT fleet.

I'd say that is conclusive that VTEC's fleet is worked harder.

 

[Mathew S]

I'd say that is conclusive that VTEC's fleet is worked harder.

For what it's worth, I'd suggest you need to consider mileage per diagram as well, and probably take stop/start vs. distance running into account too. If you're going to be 'conclusive' that is.

 

[43096]

For what it's worth, I'd suggest you need to consider mileage per diagram as well, and probably take stop/start vs. distance running into account too. If you're going to be 'conclusive' that is.

Fair comment, though I was replying in the context of Cactustwirly’s definition.

VTEC have a higher average mileage per diagram, though GWR’s duty cycle is more stop/start in nature.

 

[BestWestern]

You might like to check the facts. From last summer when GWR had a full fleet.
GWR: 53 sets for 48 diagrams (90.6% availability). 119 power cars for 96 diagrams (80.7% availability)
VTEC: 14 sets for 13 diagrams (92.9% availability). 32 power cars for 26 diagrams (81.3% availability)
I have excluded set NL65 from the VTEC numbers as maintenance cover is from the EMT fleet.

I'd say that is conclusive that VTEC's fleet is worked harder.

It's probably a very reasonable suggestion that the stop-start nature of much of GWR's work puts significantly more strain on mechanical systems than high speed running up and down the ECML does on VTEC's machines, though.

 

[sbt]

I’m pretty sure there are undiscovered antibiotics growing around the inside of the can window seals.

You might want to contact these folks then...

https://www.lstmed.ac.uk/research/public-engagement/swab-send
('Swab and Send' - a programme to get people to take swabs of places on the offchance that they might reveal new antibiotics)

 

[goblinuser]

I once encountered a driver who used to lay antibacterial hand-wipes over every instrument he was likely to touch. Possibly a bit OCD, but to an extent I don't blame him!

I've seen drivers using a folded up tea towel between anything and their hand.

 

[scotraildriver]

We have had confirmation here at Scotrail that this was a fire in the exhaust collector box - exactly the same fault that occurred to the power car at Exeter. What has happened is that the engine has failed to fully shut down and continued to tick over very slowly causing unburned fuel to enter the exhaust. This then ignited about 10 minutes after the engine has started. We have been instructed that if the engine fails to shut down fully the fuel supply must be isolated to shut it down. No serious damage apparently.

 

[Domh245]

We have had confirmation here at Scotrail that this was a fire in the exhaust collector box - exactly the same fault that occurred to the power car at Exeter. What has happened is that the engine has failed to fully shut down and continued to tick over very slowly causing unburned fuel to enter the exhaust. This then ignited about 10 minutes after the engine has started. We have been instructed that if the engine fails to shut down fully the fuel supply must be isolated to shut it down. No serious damage apparently.

How does one tell if the engine hasn't fully shut down then? Is it still chugging away in the background at low RPMs or is it as simple as a light not extinguishing?

 

[scotraildriver]

How does one tell if the engine hasn't fully shut down then? Is it still chugging away in the background at low RPMs or is it as simple as a light not extinguishing?

It makes a slow clunking sound as it's usually only running on 1 cylinder.