HS2: Why do we need it?

[mike57]

I think both the WCML corridor and M1 corridor options have been thoroughly demolished quite a few times since I joined the forum. It’s probably the same people proposing they should have been looked at almost every time. I think HS2 might have even published reports explaining exactly why they didn’t work…

My concern with this is that the financial planning and forecasting for HS2 has proven to be wrong, by a huge amount, and given that they got this bit so badly wrong I have no faith that the reports prepared to select routes are of any better quality. Bearing in mind some of the chosen route is tunneled to overcome NIMBYism then a more central route, which would need more tunnelling anyway may have been a better option.

I am one of those who find the current route somewhat illogical, given the shape of the UK a high speed spine with branches off to serve Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, East Midlands and South Yorkshire and roughly, note the word 'roughly' following the M1 for the first part seems more logical for an 'HS2'. There is no point in getting the crayons out, that bird has well and truly flown, but I think history may be quite critical of the choices made.

 

[Krokodil]

Demand for trains isn't increasing rapidly

Only because it already grossly exceeds supply (on the routes we're discussing at least) and fares have been hiked up to eyewatering levels to price off demand.

Kier opposed phase 1 why is it a surprise to you he'll oppose phase 2.

Phase 2 isn't in his constituency.

And if it is a case he is pro HS2 but he's afraid it will hurt his poll numbers, that's pretty cowardly

True to character. He's well known for fence sitting, trying not to offend either side of any given issue.

 

[renegademaster]

Phase 2 isn't in his constituency.

But it will be in several of his newly won constituencies. His own nibyism will help him understand theirs

 

[350401]

Putting phase 2a to one side for the moment, I think the best we can hope for from a new government is some more practical and rational decisions on outstanding phase 1 items. The bucket of things that needs resolving includes 1) Euston and whether it gets built 2) Handsacre connection; fast line or slow connection 3) Rolling stock - keep at 200m or extend to 275/300m 4) Platform extensions at Crewe, and potentially at Carlisle and Manchester Piccadilly. The decision on each of these items determines just how much value is obtained from phase one. Then going back to phase 2a - does this get built, does a potentially cheaper Stafford bypass get built or is nothing done and we rely on signalling upgrades?

 

[MarkyT]

Putting phase 2a to one side for the moment, I think the best we can hope for from a new government is some more practical and rational decisions on outstanding phase 1 items. The bucket of things that needs resolving includes 1) Euston and whether it gets built 2) Handsacre connection; fast line or slow connection 3) Rolling stock - keep at 200m or extend to 275/300m 4) Platform extensions at Crewe, and potentially at Carlisle and Manchester Piccadilly. The decision on each of these items determines just how much value is obtained from phase one. Then going back to phase 2a - does this get built, does a potentially cheaper Stafford bypass get built or is nothing done and we rely on signalling upgrades?

Signalling upgrades to cab-based systems can usually only squeeze very marginal additional raw capacity out of a mainline network compared to best colour light performance. It's still worth doing for many reasons though. No technology yet invented can allow fast trains to magically pass through slower ones in front that get in their way!

 

[Krokodil]

No technology yet invented can allow fast trains to magically pass through slower ones in front that get in their way!

A few trains have tried it in the past