HS2 rolling stock features

[MidnightFlyer]

If this has been covered before, please forgive me, I just can't find one ATM.

Going by the artist impressions and animated graphics of HS2 rolling stock, what features would you expect / like to see onboard?

Given the overall journey times, and likely extortionate fares, do you think First Class would be viable? Should the standard layout be like that of any InterCity stock, or should we be more adventurous and futuristic for a multi-billion pound project?

I'll mull this one over, but I want to see what others think!

 

[Greenback]

I would like to see comfortable seats that line up with windows and a good proportion of bays of 4 with tables. I would also like to see a buffet facility.

However, I expect to see cramped airline seating, many seats without a view, and no catering.

 

[Barrett M95]

I would like to see comfortable seats that line up with windows and a good proportion of bays of 4 with tables. I would also like to see a buffet facility.

However, I expect to see cramped airline seating, many seats without a view, and no catering.

It's funny: when I'm travelling with friends I will prefer a table seat but by myself I always opt for an airline seat. If there is someone sat opposite you at a table it really restricts leg (specifically foot) room which I find irritating.

 

[andyfrommk]

Continental gauge double-decker trains + what Greenback said

 

[WatcherZero]

First class a cert, I doubt there will be buffet perhaps a tea or wine service in first class. Theres been talk that they would be wider and have 3+2 seating (decent 3+2 seating!) and/or be double decker at higher platform height (though classic compatible would be standard gauge, 2+2 and standard platform height). Expect to see lots of wheelchair/luggage space. No tilting on either model due to weight but has been talk they may clear them for 125mph non-tilt running on the WCML instead of the standard 110mph limit. Also said if tilt weight reduction technological advances were made a second generation may have tilt.

 

[tbtc]

Hopefully this thread can stick to the OP's comments, and not descend into a generic argument about HS2 (whether the Chilterns are beautiful etc etc)...

I think that I'd expect standard class on HS2 to be equivalent to First Class on most TOCs now - plugs/ wifi etc.

 

[WestCoast]

A UK version of the Siemens Velaro or a double decker would be options I'd approve.

The interior would be similar to the DB ICE3 with a forward viewing lounge, comfortable seating with decent legroom and foot rests, classy interior touches, power points at every seat, speed indicators, mirrors used to give the illusion of space, a proper buffet counter with perch seating and tables, baggage racks for larger items to ensure enough storage for everyone, a small number of glass compartments with bays of six for groups and good quality leather seating throughout. Full Wi-Fi throughout, of course, free for first class passengers. Enhanced phone coverage in the appropriate areas, signal-blockers in Quiet Zones. Interactive touch-screen kiosks for connection and train running information.

Most of these design ideas are 'borrowed' from my favourite European high-speed train, which makes me realise the poor direction that train interiors have been going in the UK.

I'd make the interior as stylish and comfortable as possible, within budget constraints. This is going to be the flagship. I am probably dreaming unfortunately and we'll get Pendo MK2.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Preferably I would have it based on the A Train but with: a restaurant car, a café bar, wifi, tables in line with windows, (I'd ask for slam doors too but that'd never happen lol )

Defiantly NO Bombadier parts...Seimens/Hitachi only cheers.

 

[bb21]

The interior would be similar to the DB ICE3 with a forward viewing lounge

This is most remarkably similar to the CRH3C stock, a version of the Siemens Velaro, that I went on in June.

 

[WestCoast]

This is most remarkably similar to the CRH3C stock, a version of the Siemens Velaro, that I went on in June.

Well, they are both versions of the Siemens Velaro so it doesn't surprise me, although the DB model came much earlier. Other lounges can be seen on the RENFE AVE in Spain or as a conference room.

 

[Barrett M95]

I wouldn't want any multiple unit at all. However the way the industry is now it will be a Velaro clone or similar. If it were up to me it would be a fixed formation unit with power cars at either end, comfortable and quiet coaches in between with a spacious bar car, vacuum toilets that work and don't stink, and simple, proven technology. 320km/h, TVM signalling, built to UK gauge for onward journeys off HS2 etc...No gimmicks or double deck trains needed - this is a high profile project. People want an efficient railway that works for them, not one with money spent on things that are not needed, increase costs and can/will go wrong.

But I'm an engineer - what the hell do I know. The railway is run by committees now where engineers and operational staff are outnumbered by bean counters and marketing fluffies so we will end up with another plastic multiple unit.

 

[WestCoast]

I wouldn't want any multiple unit at all....

Personally, I'd be very happy with a Velaro clone, it's would offer far more comfort than the current offering of Pendos and Voyagers (unless they bring in Virgin to do the interior!) and you will be spending less time on them. It's going to be a MU by the way the market now works, unless the DfT make a brave move and go for something like a faster version of the Austrian Railjet, which I wouldn't mind at all but I doubt it's going to happen!

 

[Mintona]

Not sure about these "forward viewing lounges", I wanna drive these things one day and it seems a bit weird to have people watching you do everything!

 

[Greenback]

A UK version of the Siemens Velaro or a double decker would be options I'd approve.

The interior would be similar to the DB ICE3 with a forward viewing lounge, comfortable seating with decent legroom and foot rests, classy interior touches, power points at every seat, speed indicators, mirrors used to give the illusion of space, a proper buffet counter with perch seating and tables, baggage racks for larger items to ensure enough storage for everyone, a small number of glass compartments with bays of six for groups and good quality leather seating throughout. Full Wi-Fi throughout, of course, free for first class passengers. Enhanced phone coverage in the appropriate areas, signal-blockers in Quiet Zones. Interactive touch-screen kiosks for connection and train running information.

Most of these design ideas are 'borrowed' from my favourite European high-speed train, which makes me realise the poor direction that train interiors have been going in the UK.

I'd make the interior as stylish and comfortable as possible, within budget constraints. This is going to be the flagship. I am probably dreaming unfortunately and we'll get Pendo MK2.

You are dreaming! The UK trend will undoubtedly continue, especially as we have already had 3+2 seating mentioned!

It's a real shame if it does happen, as I like your dream!

 

[Barrett M95]

Forward viewing lounge: Won't happen in the name of "security" even if it works in other countries.

Comfortable seating with decent leg room: Well if you want it like a Velaro, this won't happen. You'll get rock-hard seats with decent leg room in 1st only.

Classy interior touches and power points at every seat: You might actually get this one. Power points are something most builders and operators are including.

Speed indicators: Waste of money. Only the occasional spotter is interested in this. I'd much rather the money was spent on proper functioning toilets or improving reliability or increasing the potential life of key components.

Proper buffet counter etc: Maybe, you mean like E* bar cars? Trouble with that is that it is revenue earning "bum on seat" space used up. Which is one of the main arguments for having a multiple unit in the first place (having seats in every available vehicle).

Bays of six: I like this idea - it would be a good option for either large families or business groups. Fitting it into the carriage layout would be a challenge, but the kind most engineers would enjoy with a tangible benefit.

Wi-Fi throughout: Like power sockets, this is becoming a modern travel essential.

Signal blockers: I think this would annoy passengers. What is wrong with receiving texts or emails on a phone set to silent? Or if someone is trying to get an urgent call or message to you.

Touch screen kiosks: I know the ones you mean and I've used the Siemens ones before. Very nice, but really - they tell you nothing that the vast majority of passengers wouldn't access on their phones (as long as you didn't block their signal) and it's an expensive and complex bit of kit to install and maintain. If one broke then maintenance resource would have to be dedicated to it rather than more important things, or in reality the resource would be unavailable due to more important things and the screens would remain out of use, looking bad. Plus they are vulnerable to petty vandalism... all of which passes more cost on to the operators and passengers ultimately.

This is the kind of thing I was meaning when I would prefer a straightforward train with simple, reliable technology, and features to cater for modern passengers (power points, wifi, reliable toilets, comfortable seats etc...). Get those things right and passengers will appreciate it.

 

[NSEFAN]

The UK trend will undoubtedly continue, especially as we have already had 3+2 seating mentioned!

Surely 2+2 seating is more ideal both peak and off peak?

If the train is packed, then it's better to have fewer seats to fit more people. I find it's better to stand than try and squeeze up next to someone on a row of 3 seats. If the train is quiet, the passengers can enjoy decent seating, as opposed to 3+2 bays.

 

[WestCoast]

Not sure about these "forward viewing lounges", I wanna drive these things one day and it seems a bit weird to have people watching you do everything!

Well glass screens are very common in other countries and they were present on first gen DMUs. I believe on some trains the driver can make the screen opaque at the touch of a button.

 

[Greenback]

Surely 2+2 seating is more ideal both peak and off peak?

Of xourse! I was referring to an earlier post by WatcherZero who siad ther ehas been talk of 3+2 seating!

I

f the train is packed, then it's better to have fewer seats to fit more people. I find it's better to stand than try and squeeze up next to someone on a row of 3 seats. If the train is quiet, the passengers can enjoy decent seating, as opposed to 3+2 bays.

Agreed.

 

[bb21]

Well glass screens are very common in other countries and they were present on first gen DMUs. I believe on some trains the driver can make the screen opaque at the touch of a button.

... or they can just pull down the blind.

 

[WestCoast]

... or they can just pull down the blind.

If there is an incident on the line ahead they can't.

 

[DarloRich]

I would like to see comfortable seats that line up with windows and a good proportion of bays of 4 with tables. I would also like to see a buffet facility.

However, I expect to see cramped airline seating, many seats without a view, and no catering.

That is a neat summery of what I want.......... and what I think I will receive!

 

[tbtc]

How important would a good "view" be at those speeds?

Can you really watch the cows in the fields at 200-250mph?

(having never been on anything that fast I don't know, so this isn't meant to sound like a rhetorical question)

 

[Greenback]

The faster that you travel, the more difficult it is to see things like cows that are close to the side of you. Basically because they 'flash' past!

But it is still possible to see things clearly in the middle and longer distance, though, as they remain in the fiedl of vision for longer.

 

[jon0844]

Signal blockers would be illegal, so that's not even worth mentioning. Of course, a train that blocks signals by design (as against blocking/jamming them) is different!

I think that by the time we build these trains, even the most average train will have a lot more creature comforts. As fares increase, improving the ambience and facilities may be vital to justify such fares.

Commuters may have to accept what they're given, but this will be a prestigious high-speed (and high-capacity) line so you don't need to have packed trains that have 3+2 seating and no room. As trains get busier, you can up the frequency (if you have the stock!) with ample capacity to grow.

I'd hope we see a layout that is very nice and spacious, not a glorified commuter train.

Or, you could possibly build a certain number of 'queue-buster' trains for the peak that have high-density seating if you really needed to. I doubt that, for some time, the usage will be so high that you couldn't deal with large passenger flows by simply running more trains. The higher frequency service will be just as important to me as a passenger than all-out speed, as the ability to turn up and go is what appeals (not the fares, mind!).

 

[tbtc]

The faster that you travel, the more difficult it is to see things like cows that are close to the side of you. Basically because they 'flash' past!

But it is still possible to see things clearly in the middle and longer distance, though, as they remain in the fiedl of vision for longer.

Fair enough.

But if HS2 is going to be hidden away in carefully landscaped terrain I suppose there won't be much of that?

In which case I'd put interior improvements ahead of window size/design

 

[HSTEd]

Most of the time the trains will be on the classic lines apart from the non stop Birmingham-london shuttles, so I would expect tilting, hopefully on rolling stock of a similar interior to a Mark 4 (6 degrees tilt) than a 390.

But we will get 3+2 airline style seating throughout and tiny windows that dont line up with the seats/.

 

[Greenback]

I think that by the time we build these trains, even the most average train will have a lot more creature comforts. As fares increase, improving the ambience and facilities may be vital to justify such fares.

Unfortunately, the opposite has happened on FGW. There may be sockets everywhere now, but to many passengers the seating is cramped, claustrophobic and uncomfortable.

Fair enough.

But if HS2 is going to be hidden away in carefully landscaped terrain I suppose there won't be much of that?

In which case I'd put interior improvements ahead of window size/design

How much of it is going to be landscaped so that little or nothing can be seen? HS1 is pretty much in tunnel for the first fifteen minutes or so, but after that it's more open. Is it going to be the same for HS2? Or will more be in tunnel or behind noise screens?

Most of the time the trains will be on the classic lines apart from the non stop Birmingham-london shuttles, so I would expect tilting, hopefully on rolling stock of a similar interior to a Mark 4 (6 degrees tilt) than a 390.

But we will get 3+2 airline style seating throughout and tiny windows that dont line up with the seats/.

I think you are correct, unfortunately.

 

[WatcherZero]

The faster that you travel, the more difficult it is to see things like cows that are close to the side of you. Basically because they 'flash' past!

But it is still possible to see things clearly in the middle and longer distance, though, as they remain in the fiedl of vision for longer.

Bit irrelevent then really as the lines almost entirely in tunnel or deep cutting. This lines not going to have the views of the TGV!

 

[jon0844]

I don't find the FGW HSTs claustrophobic, and found I had enough room (enough to use my laptop - albeit a MacBook Air) with the seat-back table. The power points didn't work anywhere on my carriage when I last travelled though, but luckily the MBA has 5-7 hours on battery anyway!

The high seats may not be favoured by all, but I consider the safety benefits and some more (perceived) privacy to be worth having.

 

[Greenback]

Bit irrelevent then really as the lines almost entirely in tunnel or deep cutting. This lines not going to have the views of the TGV!

Is that true for all HS2? Even the possible extensions?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't find the FGW HSTs claustrophobic, and found I had enough room (enough to use my laptop - albeit a MacBook Air) with the seat-back table. The power points didn't work anywhere on my carriage when I last travelled though, but luckily the MBA has 5-7 hours on battery anyway!

The high seats may not be favoured by all, but I consider the safety benefits and some more (perceived) privacy to be worth having.

Everyone has their opinion, and seating is very subjective. However, when you travel regularly on FGH HST's and hear the comments of people getting on, it's hard not to come to the conclusion that the majority of passengers find them claustrophobic and cramped.

I would imagine that those who use a laptop for a proportion of their journey find it less claustrophobic overall than people who like to sit back and look around!

I do like the extra privacy myself, but the other downside is that it's harder to see if a seat is occupied. I'm not sure it's worth it, really.