HS2 Relaunch

[WatcherZero]

Both the Independent and FT are reporting today that HS2 will be relaunched in March with a focus on commuter services and increased services/reduced crowding rather than speed. There will be more planning/cash put into connections to and improvements upon the classic network to take advantage of HS2 released line capacity. The speed of construction will also be accelerated, starting in the North and the South at the same time and there will be 'savings' in the budget from not having to allow for inflation over such a long construction period.

This relaunch is reportedly in response to the lukewarm reception of the speed selling point nationally and fears that current strong support in the North could become apathy when public/councils think theres nothing in it for them (as they dont have a local stop on the line) or get tired of the idea of waiting years for completion/fears that it would stop after phase 1 and the northern sections abandoned by Westminster.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Very good to hear, the main focus of the project never has been speed (except by media and politicians). David Higgins, i am already impressed with him.

 

[Yew]

The biggest fear I had was that we would chancel phase two. So its good it will start earlier.

Is the planned linespeed still 250mph?

 

[NotATrainspott]

The biggest fear I had was that we would chancel phase two. So its good it will start earlier.

Is the planned linespeed still 250mph?

Unless they want to rip up the route planning and start again, they wouldn't be changing the route that much at all.

Trains are only timetabled for about 330km/h but everything and everyone will be able to go to 360km/h to recover time during service disruption.

 

[gordonthemoron]

360 km/h is only 225mph

 

[pablo]

The designed speed is 400km/hr; but 230 on the branches.

 

[jon0844]

Great news. Should stop (but won't) those who keep going on about just saving a few minutes to Birmingham.

I've always said it was about capacity (and so have plenty of others, so I'm hardly some genius that got lucky!).

 

[NotATrainspott]

360 km/h is only 225mph

I know. The alignment is capable of it but the trains won't be able to when it opens. The expectation is that 400km/h operation will be neither necessary or worthwhile when the line opens, but would become so in the medium/long term afterward. Alstom sell AGVs designed for service running at 360km/h today but not even the Chinese are running any that fast right now. 400km/h operation (during service perturbations, normal linespeed being 360km/h) would really only be required for runs going beyond the Central Belt or through a Stranraer tunnel to Ireland, which won't be happening for a while yet.

 

[WatcherZero]

Theres also a suggestion it may be renamed the 'North-South' railway rather than HS2 but I dont know how definite that is.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Theres also a suggestion it may be renamed the 'North-South' railway rather than HS2 but I dont know how definite that is.

Probably unlikely now, would be lampooned in the media. More important will be David Higgins report into how the construction of HS2 can be speed up which would reduce the total coasts by removing inflationary pressures over the construction period.

 

[33Hz]

There's a 400 km/h capable train about to start testing in Italy now. It won't reach that in normal service but will have it in the back pocket for late running, eventually. For sure 400 km/h will be possible come 2026.

As for needed - no doubt it is needed if they want to make a big dent in the London - Scotland air market.

 

[quantinghome]

From what I've read the speeds are as follows:

Normal operating speed - 330kph.

Maximum operating speed - 360kph. The 30kph differential allows timetable to be maintained in the event of minor delays.

Alignment design - 400kph. This is it to future-proof the line.

 

[dggar]

Notice of a meeting in Manchester which may be of interest

11th Feb

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=111261525&postcount=9941

 

[IKBrunel]

I'm all in favour of starting phase 2 sooner, but at the same time as phase 1?
I was under the impression it was going to be tight getting the hybrid bill done and finish design work, land aquisition, procurement, etc, ready to start building in 2017.
So I'm unsure how they could start building ph2 at the same time, given that the consultation and parliamentary process for Ph2 is about 1-2 years behind Ph1?

 

[NotATrainspott]

I'm all in favour of starting phase 2 sooner, but at the same time as phase 1?
I was under the impression it was going to be tight getting the hybrid bill done and finish design work, land aquisition, procurement, etc, ready to start building in 2017.
So I'm unsure how they could start building ph2 at the same time, given that the consultation and parliamentary process for Ph2 is about 1-2 years behind Ph1?

The daily mail said David Higging might recommend scrapping the HS2-HS1 link. I don't have much confidence in the DM, but it would be a shame to take out the possibility of HS1-HS2 through running, not just for intl but also domestic possibilities.

I assume what they mean is that as soon as the Phase 2 design works are complete, they would start construction on them. Phase 1 is the more politically difficult of the two phases as it effectively carries the idea of the whole scheme on its shoulders. Once it passes, the momentum will be there to do Phase 2 as well, particularly due to the BCR of the whole scheme increasing considerably once Phase 2 is included. The same concept applies to any further extensions of the network as once the ball starts rolling, the benefits of further extensions grow and the risks decrease.

 

[eps200]

Starting the brum > Crewe section from day one has large potential benefits without any particular operational changes.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Starting the brum > Crewe section from day one has large potential benefits without any particular operational changes.

Could also mean the Lichfield link is no longer required and reduces some of the impacts on the WCML between the opening of phases 1 and 2.

 

[Chris125]

Could also mean the Lichfield link is no longer required and reduces some of the impacts on the WCML between the opening of phases 1 and 2.

The Lichfield link is needed for services via Stafford.

Chris

 

[Starmill]

Good to hear the timetable (and therefore, ceteris paribus, the expected opening date) has been brought forward again.

Is this the third or fourth time the project has been speeded up (only by a little but but still) now?

 

[WatcherZero]

Few more details seem to be leaking out to local papers. Camden paper is claiming that the HS1 link will be dropped to save money and and the station design for Euston will be changed yet again. And a Scottish paper is saying that during construction the Scottish sleeper which currently has an hour dwell in Euston with passengers allowed to remain on board will instead see them forced to depart upon arrival.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Few more details seem to be leaking out to local papers. Camden paper is claiming that the HS1 link will be dropped to save money and and the station design for Euston will be changed yet again. And a Scottish paper is saying that during construction the Scottish sleeper which currently has an hour dwell in Euston with passengers allowed to remain on board will instead see them forced to depart upon arrival.

As long as passive provision is included in the design of Old Oak Common station box for the link to be added at a future date then I don't mind it being dropped to save costs now. Question has probably been asked but is it possible to tunnel the entire link all the way to Stratford avoiding the impacts on the NLL and Camden market?

 

[po8crg]

As long as passive provision is included in the design of Old Oak Common station box for the link to be added at a future date then I don't mind it being dropped to save costs now. Question has probably been asked but is it possible to tunnel the entire link all the way to Stratford avoiding the impacts on the NLL and Camden market?

Asked and answered: yes, but it will cost more (original HS2 estimate: 1 GC track on NLL: £400m, 2 GC tracks on NLL: £800m, full tunnel: £3200m)

If Camden market compensation can get jacked up enough, then the all-tunnelled solution works.

 

[Yew]

Scottish sleeper which currently has an hour dwell in Euston with passengers allowed to remain on board will instead see them forced to depart upon arrival.

I would imagine there is a high possibility of a diversion to another london terminal during the euston works

 

[NotATrainspott]

I would imagine there is a high possibility of a diversion to another london terminal during the euston works

However, unless the sleeper diagrams are changed quite drastically there is nowhere else for them to go as they are 400m long and the only other terminus in north London with platforms that length is St Pancras International. Using Waterloo International would be difficult and only possible for a very short space of time before those platforms are needed for SWT services.

 

[po8crg]

However, unless the sleeper diagrams are changed quite drastically there is nowhere else for them to go as they are 400m long and the only other terminus in north London with platforms that length is St Pancras International. Using Waterloo International would be difficult and only possible for a very short space of time before those platforms are needed for SWT services.

I know it's a mess, but couldn't they take up two adjacent platforms and connect up with a bit of shunting on the way out of the station?

Bit of a worst case, but might be manageable as a workaround. IIRC, there will be a fair bit of space in KX once Thameslink is fully operational.

 

[Muzer]

Is that feasible, I wonder? Feels to me like you'd need quite a bit of shunting going on. Is that doable given the capacity available around the time the sleeper is due to depart?

 

[WatcherZero]

Osborne favours really big redevelopment of Euston.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26298736

 

[Manchester77]

But is there enough time for a full rebuild? If it has to be ready by 2026 and work begins in 2017 on the main HS2 route iirc then is there enough time for the complete rebuild and expansion?

 

[WatcherZero]

The original timetable was a complete rebuild and it would have taken the full length of phase 1 construction to complete, pretty much the only element that was continously under construction. They then changed it to the faster more limited scope (cheaper as less disruption, but offering a less radical improvement).

 

[Martin222002]

There have been suggestions that HS2 has gone back to review the case for a Euston Cross / Double Deck Down type of redevelopment for Euston which would remove the requirement to expand Euston's footprint and the associated demotion work that would have been required for that.