HS2 isn't ambitious enough

[Peregrine 4903]

I am being very controversial here in the other direction to the usual posts on the forum. Personally I don't like HS2 for unlogical reasons but I can very much see the arguments for its installation and can see why its needed, just I hope they manage to reduce the cost.

However personally I think a flaw with HS2 is that its trying to act as the sole Hish Speed line for travelling from London to the North. I personally think that HS2 as a line in 50 years won't have sufficent capacity to serve all the destinations it is currently planned to serve in the North, and a second High Speed Line (HS3) starting from Kings Cross will be needed at some point to carry the London to Leeds, York, Newcastle possibly Sheffield, Cambridge and other East Coast traffic. This line would then free up HS2 to exclusively serve Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool and North West cities. This High Speed line could also run to Norwich and take traffic of the Great Easterm Main Line.

So I propose that HS2 goes ahead in full, but a plan is put in place to build a High Speed line up the East Coast of the Country, when funds become available which I image wouldn't be for at least 50 years. The main issue with this scheme would be cost which I imagine would be enormous, but if we are to reduce long distance car journeys and domestic flights and our CO2 emmissions cost is going to have to become irrelevant and schemes like this will have to be built, regardless of how much they cost. But at the same time its very hard to justify the cost for schemes such as these.

In summary I would like HS2 and a High Speed route built up the East Coast, just also for the government to find a way to reduce the costs if possible.

 

[class26]

I am being very controversial here in the other direction to the usual posts on the forum. Personally I don't like HS2 for unlogical reasons but I can very much see the arguments for its installation and can see why its needed, just I hope they manage to reduce the cost.

However personally I think a flaw with HS2 is that its trying to act as the sole Hish Speed line for travelling from London to the North. I personally think that HS2 as a line in 50 years won't have sufficent capacity to serve all the destinations it is currently planned to serve in the North, and a second High Speed Line (HS3) starting from Kings Cross will be needed at some point to carry the London to Leeds, York, Newcastle possibly Sheffield, Cambridge and other East Coast traffic. This line would then free up HS2 to exclusively serve Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool and North West cities. This High Speed line could also run to Norwich and take traffic of the Great Easterm Main Line.

So I propose that HS2 goes ahead in full, but a plan is put in place to build a High Speed line up the East Coast of the Country, when funds become available which I image wouldn't be for at least 50 years. The main issue with this scheme would be cost which I imagine would be enormous, but if we are to reduce long distance car journeys and domestic flights and our CO2 emmissions cost is going to have to become irrelevant and schemes like this will have to be built, regardless of how much they cost. But at the same time its very hard to justify the cost for schemes such as these.

In summary I would like HS2 and a High Speed route built up the East Coast, just also for the government to find a way to reduce the costs if possible.

Can you imagine the outdry if, at the same time an eastern HS line via Cambridge was being proposed? We would be looking at 200 billion most likely and then nothing would get done. I think , given time you could well be right and an eastern leg is required but lets get this one running first and make it a success. I do think it important to come in on budget now we have the new revised costings as if costs continue to escalate that will almost certainly kill off any more lines.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Can you imagine the outdry if, at the same time an eastern HS line via Cambridge was being proposed? We would be looking at 200 billion most likely and then nothing would get done. I think , given time you could well be right and an eastern leg is required but lets get this one running first and make it a success. I do think it important to come in on the new. revised costings as if costs continue to escalate that will almost certainly kill off any more lines.

I am suggesting exactly that. They shouldn't propose an Eastern High Speed line publicly for at least another 10 years. But I feel like the government privately should already be planning for one.

Lets hope the costs stop escalating.

 

[trainmania100]

Haven't we already got a high speed line from London to the north ? I thought that's what the ECML was for and the WCML
Personally i think HS2 is a waste of money unless it cuts journey times considerably compared to EC/WCML to Glasgow , Edinburgh etc

 

[class26]

Haven't we already got a high speed line from London to the north ? I thought that's what the ECML was for and the WCML
Personally i think HS2 is a waste of money unless it cuts journey times considerably compared to EC/WCML to Glasgow , Edinburgh etc

Maybe you should view HS2 phases one and two as the first part of a full HS line to central Scotland . if this got built then ,much more time would come out of the schedules but of course the government can`t put this forward just now as the cost will rocket. better incrementally.

 

[class26]

I am suggesting exactly that. They shouldn't propose an Eastern High Speed line publicly for at least another 10 years. But I feel like the government privately should already be planning for one.

Lets hope the costs stop escalating.

I do agree with you. There should be a country wide HS network in someones backdraw waiting to be implemented. An east coast via Cambridge line, a west country line , maybe via Brighton and Southampton to Exeter and Plymouth solving once and for all the Dawlish problem and an extension from Curzon St to Exeter.

 

[miami]

After HS2, Glasgow/Edinburgh and Leeds-Newcastle extensions, and transpennine, Extending HS2 from Birmingham Interchange down to Bristol-Exeter-Plymouth/Cardiff-Swansea, and east from Curzon to Cambridge and Norwich would be on the cards

Pump £10b a year into new railway development for the next 30 years and we'd be set. That's about 1/4 of the money raised from fuel tax.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I do agree with you. There should be a country wide HS network in someones backdraw waiting to be implemented. An east coast via Cambridge line, a west country line , maybe via Brighton and Southampton to Exeter and Plymouth solving once and for all the Dawlish problem and an extension from Curzon St to Exeter.

I feel like if HS2 goes ahead then a Nationwide High Speed network should be planned. I don't think I will ever fully get behind HS2 but I am really beginning to see why it needs to be built at some point. But if it does go ahead, a natiowide High Speed netowrk needs to be factored in and not just one individual High Speed line going to the North of England.

 

[PTR 444]

I do agree with you. There should be a country wide HS network in someones backdraw waiting to be implemented. An east coast via Cambridge line, a west country line , maybe via Brighton and Southampton to Exeter and Plymouth solving once and for all the Dawlish problem and an extension from Curzon St to Exeter.

Check out this thread from a few months ago

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/my-idea-for-a-uk-wide-high-speed-rail-network.191960/

 

[Ianno87]

Haven't we already got a high speed line from London to the north ? I thought that's what the ECML was for and the WCML
Personally i think HS2 is a waste of money unless it cuts journey times considerably compared to EC/WCML to Glasgow , Edinburgh etc

I'd say knocking 45 mins so off Edinburgh/Glasgow journey times counts as "considerably".