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HS2 in the press

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matacaster

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Seems Labour leadership candidate Jeremy Corbyn doesn't think that HS2 is a good idea. He seems to think it's designed to make more northern cities dormitory towns for London. I don't generally agree with anything he says, but I think he has a point on this one.
 
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NSEFAN

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matacaster said:
Seems Labour leadership candidate Jeremy Corbyn doesn't think that HS2 is a good idea. He seems to think it's designed to make more northern cities dormitory towns for London. I don't generally agree with anything he says, but I think he has a point on this one.
If construction starts on time, there will be little Labour could do about it anyway (phase 1 at least). It would be political suicide to cancel the project once shovels have been in the ground for a few years.
 

NotATrainspott

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I've crunched the numbers before and HS2 has nowhere near enough capacity to make any real difference to the extent to which Northern cities can be 'dormitory towns'. There will doubtless be some well-heeled commuters living in south Cheshire who will drive to Manchester Airport station to work in London, but that's actually not only entirely expected but is basically part of the business case for the station there.

I think this is just trying to find another issue about which the public don't understand why the Tories and New Labour went along with it. To be honest, it's not going to be particularly helpful if Jeremy Corbyn tries to oppose it. On one side, it would give the Tories the ability to look better on the 'long term infrastructure planning' part. On the other, you have the fact that the SNP are rather keen on HS2 despite the fact that Scots have the lowest support for it out of any UK nation/region.
 

Metrailway

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Jeremy Corbyn has been a long time opponent of HS2 voting against the paving bill in 2013.

If he is elected in September, Corbyn will become leader of the Labour Party long before the hybrid bill receives Royal Assent and therefore before construction work starts.

The hybrid bill is currently at the House of Commons select committee stage. After this stage, the bill still has to go through public bill committee, report and third reading stages in the Commons. Then it will go to the Lords for first, second, committee, report and third reading stages. After this the bill will return to the Commons for the consideration of the Lords' amendments (with potential for toing and froing between the two houses if they disagree) before receiving Royal Assent and becoming law. HS2 Ltd are expecting the bill to receive Royal Assent near the end of 2016.

If he is elected in September 2015, I believe Corbyn should have sufficient time to formulate a party policy on HS2 before the third reading in the Commons takes place.

On a side note, Corbyn is also a railway enthusiast.
 
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AM9

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Jeremy Corbyn has been a long time opponent of HS2 voting against the hybrid bill in 2013.

If he is elected in September, Corbyn will become leader of the Labour Party long before the hybrid bill receives Royal Assent and therefore before construction work starts.

The hybrid bill is currently at the House of Commons select committee stage. After this stage, the bill still has to go through public bill committee, report and third reading stages in the Commons. Then it will go to the Lords for first, second, committee, report and third reading stages. After this the bill will return to the Commons for the consideration of the Lords' amendments (with potential for toing and froing between the two houses if they disagree) before receiving Royal Assent and becoming law. HS2 Ltd are expecting the bill to receive Royal Assent near the end of 2016.

If he is elected in September 2015, I believe Corbyn should have sufficient time to formulate a party policy on HS2 before the third reading in the Commons takes place.

On a side note, Corbyn is also a railway enthusiast.

So that's one year to turn around a majority for HS2 that has so far been at or near 400 votes. Wow, that will be some left-wing revolution. Dream on!
 
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Jeremy Corbyn has been a long time opponent of HS2 voting against the paving bill in 2013.

If he is elected in September, Corbyn will become leader of the Labour Party long before the hybrid bill receives Royal Assent and therefore before construction work starts.

The hybrid bill is currently at the House of Commons select committee stage. After this stage, the bill still has to go through public bill committee, report and third reading stages in the Commons. Then it will go to the Lords for first, second, committee, report and third reading stages. After this the bill will return to the Commons for the consideration of the Lords' amendments (with potential for toing and froing between the two houses if they disagree) before receiving Royal Assent and becoming law. HS2 Ltd are expecting the bill to receive Royal Assent near the end of 2016.

If he is elected in September 2015, I believe Corbyn should have sufficient time to formulate a party policy on HS2 before the third reading in the Commons takes place.

On a side note, Corbyn is also a railway enthusiast.

So that's one year to turn around a majority for HS2 that has so far been at or near 400 votes. Wow, that will be some left-wing revolution. Dream on!

Agreed there are nearly 100 more Tory MP's than Labour MP's. If Jeremy Corbyn does become Labour leader then to defeat the bill at its third reading he would have to instruct every labour MP to vote against HS2 (which is highly unlikely as HS2 will benefit Labour Constituencies the most and MP's in the North will be heavily lobbied by Labour local authorities to defy the leader and back the scheme), win the support of the 56 SNP MP's (who want HS2 to be extended to Scotland so again are unlikely to vote it down), and side with at least 60 Tory rebels who oppose the scheme (which is more than the number of Tory MP's that voted against HS2 at its second reading).

While I admire Jeremy Corbyn and agree with him in some areas (renationalising railways, Royal Mail utilities etc), I disagree him in other areas ( HS2, NATO membership etc); and if he does become leader then the Labour Party will have much bigger challenges than HS2 to overcome.
 

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So that's one year to turn around a majority for HS2 that has so far been at or near 400 votes. Wow, that will be some left-wing revolution. Dream on!

I agree it is highly unlikely that a future Labour leader will overturn the majority in the Commons for HS2.

Although within the Westminster bubble it is generally considered vital for HS2 to have cross party support. This is because the whole project (both phases 1 and 2) binds the next three parliaments to funding the project. Both Cameron and Sir David Higgins said so back in 2013 at a time when Labour's support was wavering.
 

Domh245

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Some speculators are saying that if Corbyn gets into power, then Labour may not be elected for another 10 years or so. Give them another 5 years for the labour party to find it's feet again, and voilá - 3 parliaments elapsed and a new high speed railway is built
 
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Telegraph has now run a story on Corbyn's supposed opposition to HS2

HS2 plans could be derailed if Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour leadership
Hard-Left front-runner in leadership contest criticises High Speed Two in sign that Labour's support for project could be reversed if he wins


By Ben Riley-Smith, Political Correspondent6:44PM BST 04 Aug 2015

David Cameron’s plans for High Speed Two (HS2) could be thrown into jeopardy if Jeremy Corbyn becomes Labour leader after the hard-Left candidate heavily criticised the project.

Mr Corbyn, the apparent front-runner in the leadership race, reportedly said that the Tories’ flagship transport project would turn “our great regional cities into dormitories for London businesses”.
The Islington North MP was one just a dozen Labour MPs who opposed preparatory spending on HS2 in a 2013 vote in the House of Commons. Ed Miliband later pledged his support for the project.
Sources close to Mr Corbyn said he believed HS2 “benefited the few rather than then the many” and indicated he would renew his opposition if he became leader.
The withdrawal of Labour’s support of HS2 could prove fatal for Mr Cameron’s plans to begin construction, with a final vote on the legislation due this parliament.

Both the Prime Minister and Sir David Higgins, the chairman of HS2 Ltd, have said that political consensus is essential if the £50 billion project is to go ahead.
Should Mr Corbyn convince Labour MPs to oppose the project as leader just a dozen Tory rebels would be needed to defeat the government over HS2. In 2014, 26 Tory MPs rebelled on the topic.

It came as Mr Corbyn’s campaign team released a document outlining his vision for the North of England entitled “Northern Future” – the latest piece in his “Vision for Britain 2020”.
“The Conservative government has torn schools away from the support networks of local authorities, regardless of the wishes of teachers and parents, and made them accountable directly to Whitehall, bypassing parents and local communities,” the document said according to a Guardian report.
“They have suspended the much needed investment in rail infrastructure in the north to fund HS2, a project with the aim of turning our great regional cities into dormitories for London businesses.”
However when published on Tuesday the paragraphs mysteriously disappeared from the document. Mr Corbyn's constituency is close to where the new line is planned to be built.

The criticism of HS2 puts Mr Corbyn at odds both with Mr Cameron and Mr Miliband, who decided to back the project after protracted backroom negotiations.
The Prime Minister has said in the past that “concerted consensus across business, across politics” is needed to deliver HS2, while Sir David said cross-party support is “absolutely everything”.

A source close to Mr Corbyn told The Telegraph: “His view in the past was that there are alternative ways of investing in the transport infrastructure that did not benefit the few rather than then the many.
"Also he feared that High Speed Two destroyed large swathes of constituencies between Camden and seats up North, including many Conservative MPs' constituencies."

Jeremy Corbyn has won more trade union and contituency party endorsements than any other candidate
Elsewhere in the document, Mr Corbyn promised to “rebuild” the “industrial base” of the North after bemoaning the decline in British manufacturing since Margaret Thatcher’s premiership.

He also attacked George Osborne’s “Northern Powerhouse” strategy to devolve more power to Manchester and other councils as a “cruel deception” which would not allow them to block cuts demanded by the Treasury.
It came as The Telegraph learnt Alan Johnson, the former Home Secretary who many urged to stand for leader in recent years, backed Yvette Cooper.
The announcement is a coup for Mrs Cooper, the shadow home secretary, as Mr Johnson is a popular figure in the party and his backing is likely to swing large numbers of votes her way.

Asked about the criticism of HS2 apparently deleted from the policy document, a spokesman for Mr Corbyn said: "We are currently consulting on and having much discussion about how best to invest in the much needed modernisation programme of the British rail network. And HS2 is obviously part of that.
"As today's Northern Futures document shows, we will reveal more evidence-based detail of a national rail network, East to West as well as North to South, based on the needs of the economic rebalancing of the whole of the British Isles."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-if-Jeremy-Corbyn-wins-Labour-leadership.html
 
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edwin_m

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Cue hordes of Buckinghamshire nimbies stageing an entryist coup on the Labour party to vote for Corbyn...
 
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I've written a blog analyzing what Corbyn's potential opposition could do to the Labour party. The forum moderators have asked me to post my blogs here;

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=119077

Interesting blog thanks Paul. While I think Corbyn has been a breath of fresh air in what would have been a very dull and boring leadership election and I admire his honesty and principled stance on many issues (e.g. voting against the governments welfare bill when the other three three candidates abstained), I do think you are right about the damage his opposition (or that of any Labour leader) to HS2 would have in opening up a rift with Labours northern council leaders (as Ed Balls found out to his cost).
 

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TBH, I suspect the Labour 'threat' to Hs2 is overstated. 3 of the candidates are making noises as they want to keep everyone sweet during the election period. Plus, Burnham has a reputation for facing both ways at the best of times.

Once they're in 'power' reality sinks in & they'll be facing the trap that Osborne has set for them. Are they REALLY going too put thousands of jobs at risk, plus regeneration of many of our major Northern cities - and face the parliamentary Labour party being at loggerheads with the local authorities that govern its remaining heartlands?

The Tories would have a field day!

I suspect that,if Corbyn gets in, the party is going to be too busy fighting amongst itself to get a coherent policy together.

There's another issue too. Corbyn has been an rebel all his carer. He's voted against the party whip 500 times. How is he going to impose discipline on his party to make them oppose Hs2 en masse?
 
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TBH, I suspect the Labour 'threat' to Hs2 is overstated. 3 of the candidates are making noises as they want to keep everyone sweet during the election period. Plus, Burnham has a reputation for facing both ways at the best of times.

Once they're in 'power' reality sinks in & they'll be facing the trap that Osborne has set for them. Are they REALLY going too put thousands of jobs at risk, plus regeneration of many of our major Northern cities - and face the parliamentary Labour party being at loggerheads with the local authorities that govern its remaining heartlands?

The Tories would have a field day!

I suspect that,if Corbyn gets in, the party is going to be too busy fighting amongst itself to get a coherent policy together.

There's another issue too. Corbyn has been an rebel all his carer. He's voted against the party whip 500 times. How is he going to impose discipline on his party to make them oppose Hs2 en masse?

If Corbyn does become leader then he would probably give MP's a free vote on the third reading, in which case a majority of Labour MP's would still back HS2.
 

Blamethrower

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I'm waiting for him to win and visit Texas, simply to give the headline...

Corbyn Dallas!

*apologies, I've wanted to say this out-loud since his name was announced
 

m7kelee

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Is there any update yet as to whether the WCML Crossrail link will be approved so that Crossrail will run to Tring in Hertfordshire? If not when will we know?
 

WatcherZero

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HS2 Ltd will put out to tender 7 job lots of £900m-£1.1bn worth a total of £7bn this September, though work wont begin for another two years.
 

matacaster

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Goodness, who needs contractors - she can do it all?

"I'll build Birmingham's high speed rail line and create Midlands jobs, says Labour leader candidate Liz Kendall "
 

Snapper

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New blog on Hs2 posted in this thread;

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=119675

It begins: ""Members of the anti Hs2 mob are rather like folks who are waiting for a messiah – always hoping someone, sometime, will turn up to save them. The last false prophets were UKIP who the antis worshipped as the party who would kill off Hs2. It was never going to happen & everyone else could see through them, but that’s faith for you. "....
 

Snapper

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I've exposed Andrew Gilligan/Telegraph latest Hs2 nonsense;

"Torygraph reporter & disgraced former BBC journalist Andrew Gilligan, famous for ‘sexing up’ his stories whilst accusing others of the same offence, is at it again. This time it’s a ridiculously ill-informed story about Euston station capacity & Hs2 that appeared in yesterday’s Telegraph."

More at...

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2296197#post2296197
 
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Snapper

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Sterling work, thanks.

One thing I don't really get- why are the dwell times for HS2 trains so much quicker than conventional intercity trains?

One of the reasons is that pax won't be expected to walk from one end of the train to the other. Hs2 stations will be designed with multiple entrances/exits from the platforms so people will be able to get on/off far more quickly.
 
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