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HS2 in the press

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Snapper

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New blog, this weeks crazy anti Hs2 campaigner;

"As the anti Hs2 mobs social media campaign descends into farce its getting harder to single out one Tweeter as their whole campaign is reliant on the mad, bad and er,’eccentric’ who think ranting on Twitter actually changes anything.

But one Peter Deeley has managed to impress with his splenetic ranting & ability to live on another planet to ordinary people. Here’s a selection of his tweets;"

More here..

https://paulbigland.wordpress.com/2015/06/20/crazy-anti-hs2-campaigner-of-the-week-no-6/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The anti Hs2 mob get worse.This one thought she was being clever.instead she's highlighted the fact antis are happy to break the law when it suits them.

"This week the Hs2 antis have excelled themselves & one Frances Cutler has merited a special award for providing evidence that the anti Hs2 mob will stoop to criminality.

Cutler, who lives at Great Missenden has published a series of pictures on Twitter which show the interior of the old Annie Baileys restaurant in Great Missenden which was closed & securely boarded up after it was bought out by Hs2 Ltd. Here are her Tweets"

More here...

https://paulbigland.wordpress.com/2015/06/21/crazy-anti-hs2-campaigner-of-the-week-special-award/
 
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jon0844

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Laughable as ever, including the comments from people that still believe we should spend the money upgrading the existing network (and, that the money is already there and thus being held back from more deserving causes).

Didn't they twig that the problems NR has is down to trying to upgrade a live railway, hence the delays and unpredictable nature that leads to higher expense!
 

NSEFAN

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Simon Jenkins said:
HS2 has just claimed its first victim: the rail upgrades we so badly need
:roll:

I'm glad we aren't a direct democracy when the opinion setters come up with rubbish like this.
 

quantinghome

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Can I suggest some friendly comments are posted on the graun's comment section to educate people?
 

jon0844

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There are already a few people talking sense who may or may not be from here. I think a lot of people can see through the hype that it's just for the '1%' who are likely on expenses.
 
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Can I suggest some friendly comments are posted on the graun's comment section to educate people?

There are already a few people talking sense who may or may not be from here. I think a lot of people can see through the hype that it's just for the '1%' who are likely on expenses.

Already tried you just get shouted down by the naysayers, doesn't change the fact that the anti-HS2 campaigns are effectively dead in the water though, they are so desperate for any good news or any excuse to attack HS2 that inconveniences like facts don't matter. Still when the Phase 1 bill actives Royal assent in about 18 months time it is only a matter of time till groups like Stop HS2 sink without a trace, still I expect a few die hards ike Jenkins will be shouting from sidelines as the bulldozers arrive. :)
 

Snapper

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For those interested, the Hs2 Bill Ctte were sitting today and heard a presentation from the HS2 Euston Action Group who tried to make the case for scrapping the hs2 terminus at Euston. The session was an absolute car crash. The anti's were woeful. Thier case was both muddled & badly presented.
 
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Article in the Independent on the HS2-HS1 link.

HS2: Plans revived to connect London terminus of High Speed Two with Channel Tunnel Rail Link

Under present plans, HS2 would leave from Euston and would not be linked to the Channel Tunnel Rail Link, which starts at King’s Cross St Pancras

Plans to build an underground travelator to connect the London terminus of High Speed Two (HS2) with the Channel Tunnel Rail Link have been revived by the team behind the proposed £42.6bn HS2 railway.

Under present plans, HS2 would leave from Euston and would not be linked to HS1, better known as the Channel Tunnel Rail Link, which starts less than a mile away at King’s Cross St Pancras. The Government removed a direct, £700m HS1-HS2 single-track rail link last year, concerned that it would cause too much disruption.

But HS2 Ltd and Network Rail are looking at several options, including a travelator and splitting the line before it reaches Euston. This would mean trains could connect directly to HS1, but this time on a twin track that would allow trains to go up and down the link at the same time.

The result would be a seamless service from Manchester or Leeds, the two cities where the second, Y-shaped phase of HS2 will terminate when it is completed in the early 2030s. HS2 Ltd sources say this could be part of a “suite” of connections, which could also include a walkway between Euston and St Pancras.

However, a Network Rail director told The Independent on Sunday that a previously mooted travelator between the two stations was the likely “end game”. Rail experts fear that this could be an expensive option and would cause upheaval, because a tunnel would have to be built close to the surface between the two busy stations.

HS2 has been dogged by criticism of its hefty price-tag, which had to be increased by £10bn two years ago after design and construction costs had become clearer. HS2 Ltd has been more confident in its ability to build the railway within its revised budget since Sir David Higgins, who led the construction of the London 2012 Olympic Park, became chairman last year.

A leading rail consultant said he was concerned that transport officials had become “too emboldened” about HS2’s budget and were trying to “gold-plate” the railway. But other rail insiders said the Treasury was successfully applying pressure on HS2 Ltd to cut costs.

HS2 Ltd declined to comment.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...o-with-channel-tunnel-rail-link-10382994.html

Personally I just don't see the demand for more than handful of direct services each day from Leeds/Manchester/Birmingham to the continent on a dedicated link. A travel actor between Euston and Kings Cross/St Pancras complex however would also provide a useful link between HS2 and Thameslink for passengers traveling from the South of London north and vice versa.
 
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edwin_m

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Personally I just don't see the demand for more than handful of direct services each day from Leeds/Manchester/Birmingham to the continent on a dedicated link. A travel actor between Euston and Kings Cross/St Pancras complex however would also provide a useful link between HS2 and Thameslink for passengers traveling from the South of London north and vice versa.

Unless the security requirements change significantly, I agree too. They effectively prevent an international service being used for UK domestic journeys such as Birmingham-Ashford, and the number of flights between north of London and Paris/Brussels shows the international demand wouldn't fill even a 200m train.

So a travelator it probably is (with a "travel actor" to provide entertainment for the passengers using it?). I don't see that would cause significantly more disruption if it was included in the design of the proposed Crossrail 2 station, which has entrances in both stations anyway.
 

MarkyT

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Unless the security requirements change significantly, I agree too. They effectively prevent an international service being used for UK domestic journeys such as Birmingham-Ashford, and the number of flights between north of London and Paris/Brussels shows the international demand wouldn't fill even a 200m train.

Even additional 'sealed train' services between London to new European destinations are proving troublesome, needing an enforced one-hour stoppage London-bound at Lille to detrain and screen everybody and their luggage. That's similar to the flight time for an air journey from the areas served in the alps and on the Mediteranean coast. That avoids the operator having to security screen all passengers and their luggage at the continental embarkation stations, allowing that requirement to be combined with a UK immigration check at Lille. I understand the UK border authoriies do not wish to do immigration checks on the trains in motion as this would be more labour intensive than their current limited foreign operations at the existing main continental Eurostar stations, and they have ruled out setting up any further foreign outposts at continental stations. If Eurostar changed their minds and pre-screened baggage and passengers themselves on embarkation at Lyon, Avignon, Marseille and the winter sports resorts, the immigration check could then still take place at Lille whilst the train was stationary, and importantly with the passengers still aboard. That would avoid the major nuisance factor of having to detrain and might allow the time allocated for the immigration check stop to be reduced to say 30 minutes. On that basis a single immigration team and platform might deal with two UK bound trains an hour, but that would be the limiting factor on further growth. Of course Eurostar or some future alternative London - Continental operator such as DB would have to implement neccessary measures at the appropriate Continental stations to screen and segregate passengers, and it would mean effectively the trains or at least part of them would have to become 'sealed' within Europe. Outbound from London isn't such a problem as once you're checked abourd you're effectively already in the Shengen zone so it doesn't really matter where any future train could set you down once you've crpssed the channel.

So a travelator it probably is (with a "travel actor" to provide entertainment for the passengers using it?). I don't see that would cause significantly more disruption if it was included in the design of the proposed Crossrail 2 station, which has entrances in both stations anyway.

Yes I imagine a fairly wide but shallow sub-surface pedestrian link between the two subterranean Crossrail 2 ticket halls, each of those integrated seamlessly into their respective main line terminal complex. Public side of the ticket gates, the tunnel would be equipped with moving walkways, perhaps as a series of discrete travelator sections to cover the distance required. It would be similar to some airport terminal links to satellite piers, or the Waterloo travelator tunnel connection from the original part of the Underground complex to the newer Jubilee line entrance. The major Bank station rebuild is also to include a new travelator tunnel. The usuall luggage trolleys could be provided together with a 'golf cart' service for the less-abled. These would be shared across the entire complex, all able to use the new tunnel.

Perhaps with their new London HQ nearby and their autonomous car division, Google could be persuaded to provide or support a fleet of small low speed autonomous pods to circulate the pedestrian spaces of the complex to assit the less abled or heavily baggage-encumbered.
 

edwin_m

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Even additional 'sealed train' services between London to new European destinations are proving troublesome, needing an enforced one-hour stoppage London-bound at Lille to detrain and screen everybody and their luggage. That's similar to the flight time for an air journey from the areas served in the alps and on the Mediteranean coast. That avoids the operator having to security screen all passengers and their luggage at the continental embarkation stations, allowing that requirement to be combined with a UK immigration check at Lille. ... If Eurostar changed their minds and pre-screened baggage and passengers themselves on embarkation at Lyon, Avignon, Marseille and the winter sports resorts, the immigration check could then still take place at Lille whilst the train was stationary, and importantly with the passengers still aboard. ... Outbound from London isn't such a problem as once you're checked abourd you're effectively already in the Shengen zone so it doesn't really matter where any future train could set you down once you've crpssed the channel.

While I agree most that is all possible I don't think it addresses my main point, that to be viable the same train would have to provide for domestic journeys as well as international ones. Few people will want to use such a service from Birmingham to Ashford (using my previous example) if the necessary security and border checks meant the journey was slower than transferring from Euston to a domestic service at St Pancras. Similarly for someone travelling from Amsterdam to Lille (or vice versa). This is in addition to the extra cost of providing security screening at all the origin stations.
 

33Hz

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They could employ the model now being used on Brussels to Lille Eurostars, where "domestic" passengers are carried in a designated sealed carriage and consequently can arrive later to catch the train. Once the train has passed through Lille, that carriage is free to be used by cross channel passengers.

As for screening at more remote stations, why not employ the model used by RENFE in Spain? They have a portable X-ray machine and metal detector arch which are wheeled out onto the platform where an AVE departs from and everyone entering that platform passes through it. It took a few minutes the last time I had to do this.
 
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I meant to post this yesterday, an interview in the Guardian with David Higgins.

HS2 chief hits out at ‘unjust’ division of rail assets between north and south

High-speed rail project’s chairman Sir David Higgins says north of England is often shortchanged and given ‘crappy’ hand-me-down trains

Gwyn Topham Transport correspondent

Britain has lacked, according to mild-mannered Sir David Higgins, a proper sense of outrage. Not the kind of anger that anti-HS2 protesters vent at the £50bn high-speed rail project Higgins leads, but outrage at the injustice that sees one half of the country routinely look down upon the poorer.

The chairman of HS2 Ltd, whose CV includes running Network Rail and heading the Olympic Delivery Authority, says doom-mongering over high-speed rail brings back memories. He said: “There were the same headlines on the Olympics, smack up to the opening – we’re going to be embarrassed by the opening ceremony, we’re not going to win medals, and we’re wasting all this money.

“My response was: ‘You’ve sat here for decades and watched them dump rubbish, from sewage to fridges to contaminated waste, in east London and expected people to live there. You live in your privileged areas of west London and you expect the public to put up with this in east London, and it’s a national disgrace.’

“People didn’t care about it. There was no groundswell of anger. It was unjust and unfair. There should have been an outcry.”

Higgins said the story of transport is not much different. “It’s the same sort of divide. I believe the north has been shortchanged. I look at expenditure per head, the pass-me-down process – the offcuts from rolling stock always end up in the north. Two hours from Birmingham to Leeds on a chugger, old crappy trains on poor railway lines. We would not accept that from London to Swindon, and we don’t: we insist on a huge amount of money going into commuter services.”

HS2 will attempt to address this divide, with a first leg that runs from London to Birmingham, then a second phase linking to Manchester and Leeds.

People in the north have been, Higgins said, “taken for granted. It is a disgrace, the lack of investment in transport, and they deserve better. The result is this divided country.”

Events of recent weeks have made many dubious that things will soon change. The chancellor’s northern powerhouse was dubbed the northern powercut after the government announced that rail upgrades, including the electrification of the Midland mainline and the Transpennine railway, were to be “paused”, citing cost overruns at Network Rail – despite manifesto pledges made just weeks earlier.

Yet the commitment to HS2 survives. Buoyed by the addition of Lord Adonis to the HS2 board, Higgins is unworried by political scepticism, including doubts expressed by the Labour leadership frontrunner, Andy Burnham. Higgins said: “Labour local authorities are 100% behind this. They realise how critical it is for skills and jobs in the north.”

He stressed that it “is essential this project is bipartisan” but suggested Adonis, whom he describes as “a big thinker, a good strategist”, will help ensure that.

Higgins’ faith has been freshly vindicated in the East Midlands, where the location for a new HS2 interchange at Toton has been nailed down with local authorities, which drew up plans for links and neighbouring regeneration. “They own the solution now. The more you get local ownership, the better.”

HS2, he has insisted, must be part of a broader national strategy. Three decades of major infrastructure projects lie ahead: “HS2, Crossrail 2, HS3, the substantial investment in ground support and transport for a third runway at Heathrow, the highways programme, the National Grid, nuclear power stations.” It sounds a tall order, but Higgins insisted: “It’s going to happen. It’s not a question of will we, won’t we.”

What about the money? “These are assets – not a cost to the nation.”

Ministers have reaffirmed their backing for HS2, and final plans and funds for rebuilding London Euston should be approved this year, which in time will likely see a huge underground superstation combining Euston and St Pancras with a Crossrail 2 station in between.

Two hours from Birmingham to Leeds on old crappy trains. We would not accept that from London to Swindon
Sir David Higgins
Higgins’s team is still reviewing options for a direct rail link from HS2 to HS1, but his enthusiasm sounds muted. He scrapped the original plans to help cut costs from HS2’s £50bn budget, which is still on target – though the second phase “is much less certain in terms of design, and even the final route hasn’t been determined – but we should work to deliver phase two in £25.5bn, in 2011 pounds”.

That qualification might ring a few alarm bells with opponents of HS2, who have pointed out that Higgins, as well as the HS2 chief executive, Simon Kirby, were at the helm of Network Rail when it signed off the recent £38.5bn five-year plan whose budget proved insufficient. Higgins retorted: “That was the team that delivered £20bn of projects in time and budget, you should remember.” He reels off a list of Network Rail achievements from Blackfriars station (“an unbelievable engineering challenge”) to Birmingham New Street. He added: “There’s capacity to do major, complex projects, that’s for sure.”

The problems Network Rail has since had with electrification are “utterly different” from what HS2 has to face, Higgins insisted. “What we’re essentially building is a new highway. You know exactly what’s [there] and you’ve got 24-hour access. Upgrading these existing assets is nightmarishly difficult.”

But should he not have known that, as the chief executive of Network Rail, when signing off its budget? “The scope was very much in flux. The plan was that the regulator would determine what was fair value when it was fully scoped and Network Rail would then borrow on the markets to fund its asset.”

Then, though, came accounting changes that made Network Rail’s £37.9bn debt part of the nation’s balance sheet. The game changed and a cap was put on the credit card. “Once it came on balance sheet all that flexibility’s gone. That’s the most fundamental change. That’s not anyone’s fault. It’s just a change the ONS [Office for National Statistics] in its great wisdom came out with.” Higgins wrote to warn the ONS of the likely results but it “ploughed on”. Instead of talking of a crisis in the railways, Higgins said, “people need to stop and identify that as a cause”.

Higgins said too many people are “beating up on the railways”. At chaos-hit London Bridge station, for example, he said: “The grim reality is what we should say to people is, don’t use it. Stay away, make other plans. We’ve not been as blunt with the public as we should have been.” Otherwise, “it becomes complete chaos and everyone starts pointing fingers”.

For all that, Higgins compared Britain’s attitude towards rebuilding its railways favourably to his native Australia and elsewhere. He added: “It’s really encouraging that this country has the courage to face up to these issues. I look at some of the infrastructure issues in America and think, good God.”

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...man-sir-david-higgins-north-south-rail-divide

A very good article overall, nice to see a bit of balance against all the ani- HS2 stuff by Simon Jenkins in the Guardian over the last few weeks.
 
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HilversumNS

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As for screening at more remote stations, why not employ the model used by RENFE in Spain? They have a portable X-ray machine and metal detector arch which are wheeled out onto the platform where an AVE departs from and everyone entering that platform passes through it. It took a few minutes the last time I had to do this.

It's not just screening of luggage, it's also passport control. The UK Border Agency have stated that they don't want to setup any additional Juxtaposed controls. This is why the Eurostar trains from Marseilles stop for an hour at Lille so everyone can decamp with their luggage.

I imagine you stayed within Schengen, so that didn't apply on your trip in Spain.
 

33Hz

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MarkyT described how to do the passport control above, I was just suggesting an answer to the other part of the equation.
 

nidave

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Anyone know what a "Balancing pond" is? A Search just brings up stuff about swimming pools
 

Haydn1971

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For drainage - for several uses such as capturing contaminant leaks before they enter water courses and ticking the ecology box but mostly to attenuate the volume of surface water discharged from flat highway surfaces into water courses and drains - essentially mitigating against flash flood.
 

nidave

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For drainage - for several uses such as capturing contaminant leaks before they enter water courses and ticking the ecology box but mostly to attenuate the volume of surface water discharged from flat highway surfaces into water courses and drains - essentially mitigating against flash flood.

Thanks - so similar to pollution control devices thing on motorways you see all over the place ?
 

WatcherZero

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Chatter that the governments have been having further talks on the way ahead for hs2 to Scotland after the feasability study found it wasnt economical. They have come up with a London in 3 hours plan that involves new faster last mile alignments into Edinburgh and Glasgow city centres and speed upgrades of the WCML.
 

RichmondCommu

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Or agree a Crossrail type arrangement linking up existing rail infrastructure to new chords and local stations that service Toton. Essentially stepping off the local train walking across the platform to the HS2 train.

However the danger is that you lengthen journey times to Nottingham by routing services via Toton and in doing so see customers return to their cars. On the other hand the A52 is only going to get busier so perhaps rail would still be competitive on city centre to city centre timings but the problem is I think the Government is hoping / assuming that a lot of HS2 users will travel to Toton by car, again on a very busy A52. Only time will tell!
 
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clc

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Chatter that the governments have been having further talks on the way ahead for hs2 to Scotland after the feasability study found it wasnt economical. They have come up with a London in 3 hours plan that involves new faster last mile alignments into Edinburgh and Glasgow city centres and speed upgrades of the WCML.

It was reported in Scotland on Sunday. It also reported that the Scot Govt still hopes to build Glasgow-Edinburgh HSR by 2024.
 

Haydn1971

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However the danger is that you lengthen journey times to Nottingham by routing services via Toton and in doing so see customers return to their cars. On the other hand the A52 is only going to get busier so perhaps rail would still be competitive on city centre to city centre timings but the problem is I think the Government is hoping / assuming that a lot of HS2 users will travel to Toton by car, again on a very busy A52. Only time will tell!


It's a great circular debate, my own albeit limited experience in Sheffield is that passengers enjoy the flexibility of being able to drive at pre public transport times to Dore and Meadowhall to catch a slower direct train to Leeds or Manchester or connecting service at Doncaster than using public transport or pay £15 to park to get a much better choice at Sheffield.

Whilst other places will differ in many ways, there will always be winners and losers with HS2, the key will be to ensure the combined new journey is always faster than the old journey - I've previously demonstrated this with Wolverhampton on another forum with regard to catching a connecting service post HS2 to Birmingham then onwards to Libdon being faster than a direct service to London currently. I accept its not ideal for some passengers, but will work better for many others.

It's clear to many in the industry, that HS2 will be a greater success with supporting road and classic rail infrastructure.
 
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Noddy

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It was reported in Scotland on Sunday. It also reported that the Scot Govt still hopes to build Glasgow-Edinburgh HSR by 2024.

How much preparation work has been actually done for this HSR? Eg the route options, the EIA(s), and the archaeological and ecological surveys? I can't see it being built THAT quickly if this is still at the political talk/spin stage...
 
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NotATrainspott

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How much preparation work has been actually done for this HSR? Eg the route options, the EIA(s), and the archaeological and ecological surveys? I can't see it being built THAT quickly if this is still at the political talk/spin stage...

There hasn't been much more than the announcement that it was being considered. I think there was an initial report which basically set out the steps that Transport Scotland would need to do to build such a line, but it didn't have any details about the line itself. Whether or not it could open around 2024 will depend upon how deep into Edinburgh and Glasgow any new line went, as a route in open country only could be built relatively quickly but as it goes deeper into city centres, more and more complicated and time-consuming engineering and legal works will be required. From a political perspective there's not going to be a vast amount of opposition to such a scheme.
 

Noddy

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There hasn't been much more than the announcement that it was being considered. I think there was an initial report which basically set out the steps that Transport Scotland would need to do to build such a line, but it didn't have any details about the line itself. Whether or not it could open around 2024 will depend upon how deep into Edinburgh and Glasgow any new line went, as a route in open country only could be built relatively quickly but as it goes deeper into city centres, more and more complicated and time-consuming engineering and legal works will be required. From a political perspective there's not going to be a vast amount of opposition to such a scheme.

So I'm guessing Transport Scotland are probably doing the BCR now!

I don't really remember any real political opposition (apart from the so called Greens) to HS2 and it's still taken 6+ years to get to where we are now!
 

Altnabreac

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How much preparation work has been actually done for this HSR? Eg the route options, the EIA(s), and the archaeological and ecological surveys? I can't see it being built THAT quickly if this is still at the political talk/spin stage...

Fairly well advanced plans do exist. Initial studies have been done by TS and the article mentions that Atkins have done more work to verify this.

The cross border element is less developed but if the concept is signed off I suspect the E-G element of the project could get going fairly quickly.

The Hybrid Bill process is quicker at the Scottish Parliament. I suspect something in the region of 18-24 months so assuming a Bill was introduced in summer 2016 you'd be looking at 2018 for Royal Assent.

That then gives 2 years for Procurement to ramp up with Construction from 2020 to 2024 or so.

Challenging but not impossible timescales.
 
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