HS2 in the press

[bnm]

Neither HS2 Ltd or the DfT know the current costs (2015 prices) for HS2 according to a recent FoI submission.

 

[edwin_m]

Neither HS2 Ltd or the DfT know the current costs (2015 prices) for HS2 according to a recent FoI submission.

That's probably because both costs and revenues were worked out for a previous year's prices so as to give a consistent business case. Updating them is not just a question of multiplying them by an index, there is a reasonable amount of work to do which would have to be paid for by public money. No doubt they will be updated when there is a good reason to do so.

 

[WatcherZero]

Tory newspapers seem to have an embargoed story that Osborne will be in Leeds tomorrow to reconfirm HS2 phase 2 and HS3.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Tory newspapers seem to have an embargoed story that Osborne will be in Leeds tomorrow to reconfirm HS2 phase 2 and HS3.

The story appears in the Daily Express today.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/58...er-North-Northern-powerhouse-transport-trains

THE HS2 rail link will connect London, Birmingham, Leeds and Manchester and usher in a network of high speed trains “matching the very best in Europe”, the Government will promise.

Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin will confirm it is pushing ahead with a “Y-shaped” link north from Birmingham under HS2 as well as HS3, a high-speed link across the Pennines.

He will say the Government is investing £13billion in transport in the North to exploit “the best opportunity in well over a century to level the playing field between North and South”.

He will tell an audience in Leeds tomorrow: “Great transport created the first Northern Powerhouse nearly two centuries ago and it can create the second one today. The General Election was a massive vote of confidence in HS2.

"HS2 will be built, the full ‘Y’ network from London to Birmingham and Birmingham to Manchester and Leeds.

“With construction starting in just two years, HS2 will change the transport architecture of the North...and the economic architecture.”

He will add: “We are moving forward with plans for a new high speed rail link, running right across the North, from Liverpool in the west, to Hull in the east, which will slash journey times, provide a substantial boost to capacity and help bind the North together as a single, powerful economic force.

“We have already begun closing the decades-old economic gap between South and North.

“Employment in the North is up by over 150,000 in just one year. Decent transport doesn’t just help people get around, it helps them get on.”

The £13billion northern transport package will also include improvements to the A1, M62, M1 and A555. New trains will be introduced on the East Coast Mainline, adding capacity for 44 million more passengers.

A new body, Transport for the North, will oversee the improvements, giving the region a voice and allowing it to shape its own future.

Among its first projects could include a road tunnel under the Peak District, a freight strategy for the North and an integrated smart ticketing system

 

[33Hz]

Paywalled http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/industrials/article4456573.ece

And of course, expect this: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/industrials/article4456584.ece

 

[Snapper]

The latest delusional nonsense from the StopHs2 campaign today.

"If evidence were needed that the anti Hs2 campaign has completely lost the plot then look no further than this piece of self serving nonsense from Joe Rukin published in today’s Bucks Herald."...

More here;

https://paulbigland.wordpress.com/2015/06/01/joe-rukin-stop-hs2-are-living-on-another-planet/

 

[Geezertronic]

Any people with any sense would have stopped listening to Joe (and Penny for that matter) a long time ago although, as you mention Paul, there are still some people who believe in the emotive and fact-less nonsense that makes up the majority of the StopHS2 website and you are correct again - it gives people false hope which is truly wrong

 

[Snapper]

Any people with any sense would have stopped listening to Joe (and Penny for that matter) a long time ago although, as you mention Paul, there are still some people who believe in the emotive and fact-less nonsense that makes up the majority of the StopHS2 website and you are correct again - it gives people false hope which is truly wrong

Most people with sense have stopped listening. There's been a steady drop in people using social media to 'protest' about Hs2 ever since the Hybrid Bill was passed with such a massive majority. Since the election this gradual desertion's become more of a rout!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
New blog. M'cr airport expansion plans: Another body blow to anti #hs2 mob claims Hs2 won't rebalance the economy:

"The anti Hs2 campaign’s claims that Hs2 will do nothing to help rebalance the economy & help the North were dealt another serious blow today now Manchester airport has announced a £1bn expansion plan that is expected to more than double the number of passengers from 23m to 55m by 2050."

More here...

https://paulbigland.wordpress.com/2...balance-the-north-are-deal-another-body-blow/ …

 

[33Hz]

Re the quotes that the DfT models used don't reflect the true BCR of the scheme because they can't take into account every factor at a national level...

One could say the same about their recommendations for the Heathrow spur and the HS1-HS2 connection and IMHO a rethink of this needs to happen too.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Do I detect a faint whiff of NIMBYism in Simon Jenkins article in the Guardian

HS2 is not a useless railway, merely the stupidest

The transport secretary, Patrick McLoughlin, yesterday called the election a “massive vote of confidence” in his controversial HS2 railway. It had conclusively “won the argument” for the line. Does that apply to every government policy, however silly?

HS2 is not a useless railway, merely the stupidest. In 2010 David Cameron backed it unthinkingly, as a vague “alternative” to building a third runway at Heathrow, which he had promised not to do. This bad decision was made worse when he then changed his mind about the runway.

No reputable transport economist – other than those employed by Whitehall – backs HS2. It saves little journey time. Its London terminus, Euston, is the worst connected in the capital, adrift of the Central, Circle and Crossrail tubes. Extra capacity for premium fare “business” travellers is not a priority need and will almost certainly lose money. So-called diversionary capacity can be met far less extravagantly, and high-speed rail is energy inefficient.

A general election might be thought a good time to review embarrassing projects. Politicians are better able to stand up to lobbyists. Chancellors can plead austerity. Sanity can gain the upper hand.

George Osborne regards HS2 as part of his northern strategy. Yet he has appointed as a Treasury minister the Mancunian economist, Jim (now Lord) O’Neill, a strong opponent of HS2. O’Neill sees far more important priorities for rail travel in the Midlands and north-west, not least for the staggering £70bn that is the likely cost of HS2.

If Cameron really wants a vanity project, he should know that high-speed rail is about long distances. The one sensible route for it in Britain is from Scotland and Yorkshire to London, running direct on to HS1 tracks to Paris and the rest of Europe. That route would go down the existing east-coast mainline to St Pancras, or passing east of London. As it is, HS2 passengers will have to trundle their bags along the Euston Road to get to HS1. Britain will be the laughing stock of European transport.

The east-coast route would be cheaper, faster and far less controversial – and might balance the north-west bias of the existing northern powerhouse. All that is lacking is the courage on Cameron’s part to admit his original decision was wrong. At least O’Neill is in the right place. We now wait to see if the offer of ermine has turned him from a man into a mouse.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...less-railway-stupidest-cameron-tories-mistake

What a load of ill informed claptrap.

 

[Holly]

Do I detect a faint whiff of NIMBYism in Simon Jenkins article in the Guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...less-railway-stupidest-cameron-tories-mistake

What a load of ill informed claptrap.

Quite.
They seem to have missed a simple, but crucial, analysis -
1. A new railway is needed to add capacity to the route.
2. If you are going to build a new railway then the economics make it high speed and large loading gauge.

Frankly, I think they should build it with a still larger loading gauge, for purposes of future-proofing for a hundred years hence. Even though the cost would be a little greater.

 

[HilversumNS]

Its London terminus, Euston, is the worst connected in the capital, adrift of the Central, Circle and Crossrail tubes.

Rather conveniently forgetting that the HS2 plans to create a new sub-surface pedestrian link between Euston and Euston Square Underground station.

As it is, HS2 passengers will have to trundle their bags along the Euston Road to get to HS1.

So no tube running between Euston and St Pancras/Kings Cross then?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Frankly, I think they should build it with a still larger loading gauge, for purposes of future-proofing for a hundred years hence. Even though the cost would be a little greater.

Totally agree. The ability to run double decker trains would future proof this line for many years.

 

[Alan White]

Rather conveniently forgetting that the HS2 plans to create a new sub-surface pedestrian link between Euston and Euston Square Underground station.

Building a tunnel won't bring the two stations any closer together, any more than calling Bank "Bank/Monument" does.

I've never understood why Gower Street/Euston Square was built where it is rather than closer to Euston which preceded it by nearly thirty years. The Circle line tracks are only 100m from Euston's main entrance yet the walk between the two stations is over 400m. And during the walk you pass over the east end of Euston Square's platforms but there's no entrance there .

So no tube running between Euston and St Pancras/Kings Cross then?

It's quicker to walk between EUS and STP, especially if trundling bags and therefore avoiding escalators.

 

[HilversumNS]

Building a tunnel won't bring the two stations any closer together, any more than calling Bank "Bank/Monument" does.

Very true, but I was arguing against the point made in the Guardian article "is the worst connected in the capital, adrift of the Central, Circle and Crossrail tube"

It's quicker to walk between EUS and STP, especially if trundling bags and therefore avoiding escalators.

Again, I agree, but the article didn't say QUICKER, it says "HS2 passengers will have to trundle their bags along the Euston Road to get to HS1" which is not true.

 

[edwin_m]

I've never understood why Gower Street/Euston Square was built where it is rather than closer to Euston which preceded it by nearly thirty years. The Circle line tracks are only 100m from Euston's main entrance yet the walk between the two stations is over 400m. And during the walk you pass over the east end of Euston Square's platforms but there's no entrance there .

I agree. Possibly something to do with railway politics? The Metropolitan was initially backed by the Great Western probably because it improved access to their then very remote terminus at Paddington, although the companies fell out soon after the Met opened. I also recall there was a plan for through trains between the Euston lines and the Circle (the eastbound Circle platform at Kings Cross being an uncompleted tunnel for this link) which people might have thought would have avoided the need to change.

I reckon Euston is pretty well connected to most of London. Links to Euston Square and to St Pancras (travelator in a shallow-ish tunnel?) would make it even better.

I thought Simon Jenkins had some rational arguments for his opposition to HS2. But he now seems to be peddling all sorts of doubtful ones.

 

[Snapper]

I thought Simon Jenkins had some rational arguments for his opposition to HS2. But he now seems to be peddling all sorts of doubtful ones.

Jenkins was expertly filleted by blogger "Zelo St" here...

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/simon-jenkins-hs2-fail.html

 

[HilversumNS]

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/simon-jenkins-hs2-fail.html

I've just had a quick read of some of his rail articles. He seems to argue well and against all sides. Nice to find some rational balance.

 

[Ironside]

Jenkins was expertly filleted by blogger "Zelo St" here...

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/simon-jenkins-hs2-fail.html

Yes, quite a good article.

 

[33Hz]

Good article, but I fear we must argue our case in the comments section of the Guardian not on a website that only the interested might be reading.

Jenkins is a powerful voice who pops up in whatever paper might support his cause. With wind turbines it was always the likes of the Mail and Telegraph. Look at the current government's policy on those now.

 

[quantinghome]

Good article, but I fear we must argue our case in the comments section of the Guardian not on a website that only the interested might be reading.

Jenkins is a powerful voice who pops up in whatever paper might support his cause. With wind turbines it was always the likes of the Mail and Telegraph. Look at the current government's policy on those now.

There were quite a number of pro-HS2 comments after Jenkin's article, so it may be happening already - but the more the merrier!

 

[HowardGWR]

I've never understood why Gower Street/Euston Square was built where it is rather than closer to Euston which preceded it by nearly thirty years. The Circle line tracks are only 100m from Euston's main entrance yet the walk between the two stations is over 400m. And during the walk you pass over the east end of Euston Square's platforms but there's no entrance there

Zelo-Street says this:

"And Euston Square station on the Circle Line will be brought into the Euston complex by the time HS2 opens."

Is that right? Are there definite commitments for that?

 

[All Line Rover]

Euston.. is the worst connected [London terminus] in the capital...

What nonsense! Has he not heard of Fenchurch Street? And Marylebone? And Paddington (albeit this one will improve somewhat once Crossrail opens, but it is still on the wrong side of London for most people)?

Kings Cross St Pancras is the best connected London terminus, from which Euston is a mere 5 minute walk.

The one sensiblee route for [HS2] in Britain is going via the east-coast mainline to St Pancras.

Yes! Most sensiblee! Let's forget about the £445m British Library, the £660m Francis Crick Institute, opening next year, Birmingham and every city north west thereof. How did we fail to spot such a sensiblee solution?

 

[HilversumNS]

Zelo-Street says this:

"And Euston Square station on the Circle Line will be brought into the Euston complex by the time HS2 opens."

Is that right? Are there definite commitments for that?

Part of the HS2 plan for Euston is to create a sub-surface connection between the 2.

 

[Snapper]

New blog. Crunching the latest rail growth figures & daft anti #hs2 mob claims.

" Yesterday the ORR released the latest rail passenger statistics and (yet again) the numbers hit new records. The statistics relate to Quarter 4 (1 January 2015 to 31 March 2015) & show that over 1.6 billion passenger
journeys were made, the highest recorded figure since of the series of statistics began in 2002-03"....


More here.

https://paulbigland.wordpress.com/2...s-just-gets-worse-worse-for-the-anti-hs2-mob/

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Article in the Daily Mirror attacking HS2 Ltd for wasteful spending on office furniture and equipment.

HS2 more like High SPEND 2 as managers splash cash on goodies including £2k on USB sticks

Self-help workshops, a £723 fancy office chair and £20 iPad cases are among the wasteful purchases.

It’s not yet up and running – but pen-pushers working on Britain’s £50billion high-speed rail link have quickly jumped on the gravy train.

Managers on the HS2 project are busy splashing cash on expensive extras such as self-help workshops and training courses, reports the Sunday People.

Two enjoyed a Life Club “booster day” designed to provide personal improvement for workers – at a cost of £590.

Other taxpayer-funded expenses included hiring a Hilton Hotel in London for meetings at around £528 and a fancy “ergonomic” office chair costing £723.

Standard office chairs can be bought for £70 or less.

Another £589.50 was spent on 30 iPad cases along with £2,241 on USB memory sticks for staff.

Details of the spending, between last June and Ocober, emerged in documents released under HS2 “transparency” rules.

An unimpressed spokesman for the Taxpayers’ Alliance said: “The gravy train is picking up speed.”

Controversial HS2 will see 250mph trains speed from London to Birmingham and later Manchester and Leeds. Building is due to start in 2017 with the line open in 2026.

Separate research last year showed HS2 had already spent £300million on outside businesses in less than three years – including £10million to employment agencies and £1.2million on public relations and parliamentary lobbying companies.

Despite its own revelations, an HS2 spokesman said: “We constantly assess our priorities to maintain a ruthless focus on driving down costs.

“We delivered well within our budget for 2014/15 and expect to do the same within the current financial year.

“As passenger numbers grow on our main rail arteries, we need to create space for more trains.

"The new railway will provide unprecedented levels of opportunity for growth, jobs, and skills along the route of HS2 and beyond.”

HS2 will see 250mph trains speed from London to Birmingham and later Manchester and Leeds. He then insisted: “HS2 will be delivered on budget and on time.”

But MPs doubt it will be worth the massive costs. In January the Public Accounts Committee said the Department of Transport had to reassure taxpayers.

Its chairman, Labour MP Margaret Hodge said: “We are sceptical whether the department can deliver value for the taxpayer on HS2.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hs2-more-like-high-spend-5837290

How scandalous £723 for an office chair. They should sit in a normal chair and suffer from a bad back :roll:

 

[jon0844]

£20 for an iPad case is actually pretty cheap. Bet that wasn't from an Apple store!

 

[josh-j]

Office chairs aren't cheap, and some people need special ones for back support etc. This is surely commonplace in many offices that care for their workers' health.

What a stupid article.

 

[Deerfold]

Office chairs aren't cheap, and some people need special ones for back support etc. This is surely commonplace in many offices that care for their workers' health.

What a stupid article.

And surprise, surprise, it's the Taxpayer's Alliance banging on about it (this is a Limited Company who seem to specialise in coming up with stories for the Express and Mail which usually turn out to be quite reasonable when looked at in detail but make for a shock headline).

 

[SS4]

Office chairs aren't cheap, and some people need special ones for back support etc. This is surely commonplace in many offices that care for their workers' health.

What a stupid article.

I believe it's a legal requirement to make reasonable adaptations for employee's health and buying chairs with more lumbar support or a footrest, desk raising, tall backed chair is certainly reasonable. Of course the hatesheets would then have blamed them for the resulting sickness.

Of course the Taxpayer's Alliance are involved, gotta protect the interests of the landed gentry and not all taxpayers as the name suggests.

Its chairman, Labour MP Margaret Hodge said: “We are sceptical whether the department can deliver value for the taxpayer on HS2.”

Didn't Labour support HS2 before 2010? It smacks of the depressing culture of scoring political points over working for your country so pervasive in politics today. Anything to take a jab at the Tories.

I'd love to bring in media laws but the Coalition was too scared of Murdock to enact Leveson's recommendations (another case of personal/party gain over serving the country)

 

[jon0844]

I spent a lot of money on an office chair, as I worked from home and knew I'd spend lots of time sitting in it. Probably around £500, back in 2001.

I'm still sitting in it today and it's still as comfortable. Probably done my back loads of good too. Seems like a win win situation, if it kept me from becoming a drain on the NHS with back problems!