HS2 in the press

[Voglitz]

Sorry this doesn't add much to the discussion, but:

Doncaster and Wigan (the towns) are smaller than York and Preston respectively, but are often quoted as having the populations of the metropolitan districts of the same name. (Ditto Wakefield, Rochdale, Bradford etc)

It would add more to the discussion if you could point to verifiable sources which support your assertion.

I'd like you to provide sources for your 'balanced information' then. So far, in all these threads, all I've seen are your opinions, usually contradictory, and a few 'quotes'.

If there are contradictions, why not name them?

Ive not seen anything to suggest HS2 services onto the WCML (Wigan, Preston, Scotland) would be anything but 260m and would be using the classic compatible stock that was initially used for Manchester before phase 2.

"HS2 Ltd has taken forward detailed work to assess the latest view on the likely cost of HS2 rolling stock. This has involved: reassessing the fleet requirement (including removing 260 metre units as a service offering)" (Source)

You appear to fundamentally not understand what trains running at a homogenous speed means for a start which causes me to doubt you understand the other matters you dismiss with no explanation.

Your chance to shine, then. What does trains running at a homogenous speed, 'mean for a start'?

 

[Deerfold]

It would add more to the discussion if you could point to verifiable sources which support your assertion.

Pot, kettle?

Your cha]nce to shine, then. What does trains running at a homogenous speed, 'mean for a start'?

Given you dismiss, with no backup evidence, far more experienced posters than me (who have already posted explanations), I really don't see the point of putting the effort in.

 

[Snapper]

Latest blog on the anti Hs2 campaign in the final week of the election:

"As we’re in the final week of the election campaign I though I’d take a look at how the anti Hs2 campaign’s going. The answer is – very badly indeed.

Their laughable ‘no votes for you with Hs2′ campaign has got absolutely nowhere. It’s not even persuaded individual politicians to backtrack on their support for Hs2 never mind the actual parties. Instead, all the major players (including the SNP) have restated their support for the Hs2 project in no uncertain terms. Take this example from Labour’s Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, who gave an interview to the Liverpool Echo" (more here)......

https://paulbigland.wordpress.com/2015/05/02/the-anti-hs2-campaign-in-the-last-week-of-the-election/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
New blog on the latest election dishonesty from the anti Hs2 campaign;

"Having blown all their money (and that of a lot of taxpayers too) on futile attempts to stop Hs2 in the courts the High Speed 2 Action Alliance (Hs2aa) is doing very little nowadays. However, it has produced a card to help support the ineffective ‘no votes for you with hs2′ campaign. It’s their usual mixture of spin & lies in the form of 5 (loaded)’questions’ that are supposedly meant to put MPs ‘on the spot’".

More here...

https://paulbigland.wordpress.com/2015/05/03/more-election-dishonesty-from-hs2aa/

 

[Geezertronic]

I've noticed posters around my local area which say they (whoever they are as "they" are not listed on the poster) won't support a party who supports HS2 and compound their inaccuracy with the statement "NHS not HS2" which to be shows an obvious lack of understanding of how HS2 will be funded. That inaccurate statement could be applied to any rail or non-rail related infrastructure project

I do find it quite ironic that "they" won't even identify who they are on these posters as well

 

[Agent_c]

I've noticed posters around my local area which say they (whoever they are as "they" are not listed on the poster) won't support a party who supports HS2 and compound their inaccuracy with the statement "NHS not HS2" which to be shows an obvious lack of understanding of how HS2 will be funded. That inaccurate statement could be applied to any rail or non-rail related infrastructure project

I do find it quite ironic that "they" won't even identify who they are on these posters as well

Maybe its because of the limits on election spending? Makes it harder to work out who might be breaching their cap...

 

[Snapper]

New blog:

"Today the anti Hs2 campaign finishes its electoral campaign not with a bang but a whimper.

What’s been remarkable is how low key their campaign has been. Admittedly, both StopHs2 and Hs2aa are skint due to a shortage of donors & having blown all their money on futile court cases so a big poster or mainstream media campaign was out of the question"...

More here. https://paulbigland.wordpress.com/2015/05/07/crunch-time-for-the-anti-hs2-mob/

 

[33Hz]

I wonder how many journalists and editors live in NW4?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-is-a-grotesque-waste-of-taxpayers-money.html

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b4ea9052-f989-11e4-ae65-00144feab7de.html

http://www.theguardian.com/business...ay/14/ex-goldman-sachs-man-talks-sense-on-hs2

 

[pablo]

It's unusual for Paxo to be so ignorant.

 

[33Hz]

I know from contacts on the inside that there is a fervent anti-HS2 culture within the BBC News dept. They seemed to commission their own research into the HS2 business case when (as I pointed out above) they should be investigating why it is so much more expensive to get HSR built in the UK than elsewhere in Europe.

 

[NSEFAN]

It is surprising given the BBC is now based in Manchester. You'd think more of the staff would be favourable to having a better link to London.

Unless of course someone high up in management is directly affected by the issue.

 

[Noddy]

I know from contacts on the inside that there is a fervent anti-HS2 culture within the BBC News dept. They seemed to commission their own research into the HS2 business case when (as I pointed out above) they should be investigating why it is so much more expensive to get HSR built in the UK than elsewhere in Europe.

Can't say I've noticed any bias from BBC News (I've just been commenting on supposed BBC bias on another thread). The only time I have noticed any bias on the BBC was actually on Countryfile about a year or so ago, which was an investigation feature on the loss of a piece of ancient woodland by Tom Heap. I've not seen any since.

 

[33Hz]

And in the Chinese press http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20150521000081&cid=1102

 

[WatcherZero]

Independent on Sunday has got hold of a leak from the HS2 Scotland report which will be published at the end of the year. The preliminary finding is that there is no business case for any new route to Scotland and so they've moved on to purely upgrading existing classic routes.

 

[Snapper]

Independent on Sunday has got hold of a leak from the HS2 Scotland report which will be published at the end of the year. The preliminary finding is that there is no business case for any new route to Scotland and so they've moved on to purely upgrading existing classic routes.

That's not a 'leak' at all. That's the Sindy (which has come out against Hs2) dressing up info in the public domain as a 'leak'. Higgins is on record as saying exactly this ages ago.

Not that it really matters, no-one reads the Sindy nowadays - except for a few people who live inside inside the M25...

 

[WatcherZero]

No he just said in November that it would be challenging and upgrading existing routes was more realistic but that all options were still being considered.

 

[HilversumNS]

I'm sure that the SNP will use this as an another excuse for independence, in which case there is no need for the remaining parts of the UK to fund such a line.

Chicken and egg scenario, sort of.

 

[clc]

Here's a link to the article: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-fast-train-service-to-scotland-10272342.html

This puts Glasgow-Edinburgh HSR in doubt. Without the Y section north of Carstairs it wouldn't be economic. I can't see the Scottish Govt funding it all.

 

[HSTEd]

Now if the SNP hadn't stoked fear of a Labour administration beholden to them to get English voters to go Conservative.... they might have been able to demand the route from labour.

Oh well. I suppose they benefit in the end in that this is another thing they can use to justify another independence referendum.

 

[The Ham]

All that the report means is that the UK national government will not be funding the whole of the link to Scotland as there is no business case.

If Scotland provide part of the funding then the UK national government may, subject to it being of a level where they are happy that they will see a return, then it could still go ahead.

Of course HS2 could still (even without a full link to Scotland) provide journey time improvements.

 

[me123]

We're better together, but let's keep journey times to Jockland as long as we possibly can.

And, of course, I'm sure we'll be picking up "our share" of the bill even though the benefits will be proportionally negligible to Scotland.

 

[The Ham]

We're better together, but let's keep journey times to Jockland as long as we possibly can.

And, of course, I'm sure we'll be picking up "our share" of the bill even though the benefits will be proportionally negligible to Scotland.

With HS2 there will journey time improvements of about 45 minutes (the journey time savings to Leeds) if there were no further improvement between there and Scotland.

 

[clc]

With HS2 there will journey time improvements of about 45 minutes (the journey time savings to Leeds) if there were no further improvement between there and Scotland.

Yes but why not build some of the new infrastructure at the Scottish end? It would only cost a few billion but would facilitate Glasgow-Edinburgh HSR and all the time and capacity benefits that would bring to the Central Belt, not to mention further reductions in cross border journey times. Im sure there would be a business case for that, but it seems the political will doesn't exist at Westminster.

 

[Class83]

All that the report means is that the UK national government will not be funding the whole of the link to Scotland as there is no business case.

If Scotland provide part of the funding then the UK national government may, subject to it being of a level where they are happy that they will see a return, then it could still go ahead.

Of course HS2 could still (even without a full link to Scotland) provide journey time improvements.

If HS2 isn't eventually going to make it to Scotland then it's likely to be classified as an England only project. Which means that the Scottish Govt get a cheque for ~10% of the price to spend on whatever they want. Wales and NI will also get their cut of the money.

 

[richieb1971]

We need a government that just does something rather than talks about it.

The reason why other countries get things done is because a few people with power start a project based on their perceived value. If you start asking Tom, Dick and Harry what they think you'll never get anything done.

Its like Henry Ford once said "If I asked the public what they wanted they would have said a faster horse".

It is scientists, engineers and top politicians that should just do what they want.

 

[HilversumNS]

We need a government that just does something rather than talks about it.

Surely we only want the government to spend our money when there is a sufficient business case to justify it?

Otherwise we end up with pet projects, such as Boris Island and the Brixham Express Ferry.

 

[Deerfold]

Now if the SNP hadn't stoked fear of a Labour administration beholden to them to get English voters to go Conservative.... they might have been able to demand the route from labour.

Oh well. I suppose they benefit in the end in that this is another thing they can use to justify another independence referendum.

I don't recall the SNP starting any stories like that. The Tories did to try and get people to not vote Labour, but I don't see how that's the SNP's fault.

 

[richieb1971]

Surely we only want the government to spend our money when there is a sufficient business case to justify it?

Otherwise we end up with pet projects, such as Boris Island and the Brixham Express Ferry.

I am not knocking this government because I believe the best choice we have is in power. But they do seem to be rather reactive rather than proactive. They wait for a problem to materialize before doing anything about it causing a pressure situation.

HS2 is too expensive as it stands. Everything about railways is too expensive in this country. If the trains on HS2 aren't priced for the masses its a pointless exercise. You don't see other countries building infrastructure and then making it cost the earth to use it. So why are we doing it? Running trains with empty seats is a waste of money so having 16 coaches of seats that will cost £100 a ticket to Birmingham is just so wasteful.

I believe HS2 in its current guise is superficial. We only need the jobs it will provide.. The end product is flawed from top to bottom and thats without the general protesting of land etc.

 

[WatcherZero]

Continued minor outrage from SNP in press, only comment from Westminster 'We have received the final report on Scotland options and are studying it, HS2 to Scotland has not been ruled out at this time'.

 

[AM9]

HS2 is too expensive as it stands....... If the trains on HS2 aren't priced for the masses its a pointless exercise......

By what measure is HS2 too expensive and where are you getting such factual information from?

So why are we doing it? Running trains with empty seats is a waste of money so having 16 coaches of seats that will cost £100 a ticket to Birmingham is just so wasteful.

Once again, not sure where the £100 comes from but even if it is true, there will be trains packed full of passengers paying that sort of price to go from London to Birmingham on the WCML in 2025 plus processions of vehicles crawling up the M1 and M6 to Birmingham taking those who might have taken the train if it wasn't so crowded.

 

[The Ham]

Once again, not sure where the £100 comes from but even if it is true, there will be trains packed full of passengers paying that sort of price to go from London to Birmingham on the WCML in 2025 plus processions of vehicles crawling up the M1 and M6 to Birmingham taking those who might have taken the train if it wasn't so crowded.

An anytime return between London and Birmingham costs £99, which would imply that people pay that already. Given the "scare story" is that HS2 will cost that much in 2025(?) wouldn't be that scarry as it would imply that those fares won't have gone up by very much (unlike most other fares). Therefore HS2 is going to limit rail fare increases!