HS2 Depot Movements

[Purple Orange]

moderator note - split from:

HS2 construction updates

As LNW-GW Joint posted in another thread, Euston is closed 26-27 August for HS2 work so it seems we need another thread to cover the construction of HS2! What work is this weekend closure likely to cover? Will there be working at night as well or will it just be weekend closures for a while?

www.railforums.co.uk

Does anyone know the maximum number of timetabled passenger services and rolling stock movements to/from depots that can feed in to each of Euston, Curzon Street & Piccadilly in a given hour?

I understand max services are 18 tph in to Euston, but does that include or exclude stock movements?

 

[Bald Rick]

Does anyone know the maximum number of timetabled passenger services and rolling stock movements to/from depots that can feed in to each of Euston, Curzon Street & Piccadilly in a given hour?

I understand max services are 18 tph in to Euston, but does that include or exclude stock movements?

includes stock movements.

 

[Purple Orange]

includes stock movements.

Thanks. Therefore if Euston was to see 18 tph, I take it that means that stock movements would not be possible during a normal hour during the day?

Do we know what the equivalent capacity is for Curzon Street? I understand that Piccadilly is 14 tph.

 

[Bald Rick]

Curzon St will be limited by the number of platforms. but stock movements will only ever normally be at start and end of the day.

 

[Watershed]

Thanks. Therefore if Euston was to see 18 tph, I take it that means that stock movements would not be possible during a normal hour during the day?

Do we know what the equivalent capacity is for Curzon Street? I understand that Piccadilly is 14 tph.

The line will have a ruling 3 minute headway - though in practice, it will probably be well under 2 minutes on the slower speed sections. Therefore the theoretical maximum capacity would be 20tph.

Of course that is all fine and good on plainline track, but capacity reduces as soon as you add station calls, slower diverging junctions and conflicting movements in station throats. Hence why Piccadilly 'only' has capacity for 14tph and Curzon Street likely even less, unless they introduced auto-reverse like on Crossrail (which I can't see happening) to reduce platform occupation times.

 

[Bald Rick]

unless they introduced auto-reverse like on Crossrail (which I can't see happening) to reduce platform occupation times.

Auto reverse (or absence of) isn’t the constraint for HS2 dwells at the terminal stations -it’s passengers boarding and alighting.

Autoreverse for Crossrail is to get the trains spun without a driver in the sidings, in a short period of time.

 

[edwin_m]

The line will have a ruling 3 minute headway - though in practice, it will probably be well under 2 minutes on the slower speed sections. Therefore the theoretical maximum capacity would be 20tph.

Of course that is all fine and good on plainline track, but capacity reduces as soon as you add station calls, slower diverging junctions and conflicting movements in station throats. Hence why Piccadilly 'only' has capacity for 14tph and Curzon Street likely even less, unless they introduced auto-reverse like on Crossrail (which I can't see happening) to reduce platform occupation times.

The 3-minute headway includes extracting and inserting trains at the end of the four-track section south of Birmingham Interchange. This is planned to have 230km/h turnouts, the world's fastest, but even with that the technical headway needs to be less because the slower entry and exit speed means trains will be unevenly spaced. Stations are designed to achieve the prevailing headway, with OOC having parallel platforms and Euston having grade separation which should eliminate throat conflicts if the timetable uses the platforms in a sensible sequence. Birmingham and Manchester were designed around the service they were intended to have, which was always going to be less, and if it had been planned as a nationwide network then maybe there would be more scope for use by regional trains. However, dropping the eastern leg may make some capacity available at Curzon Street because Manchester and Leeds will probably not have separate trains.

 

[CdBrux]

However, dropping the eastern leg may make some capacity available at Curzon Street because Manchester and Leeds will probably not have separate trains.

The Leeds trains at Curzon street would be replaced by the Nottingham ones I think

 

[edwin_m]

The Leeds trains at Curzon street would be replaced by the Nottingham ones I think

Quite possible, though Midlands Connect were asking for 1TPH Nottingham before the eastern leg was amputated. I don't know if anyone looked in any detail at whether that would have been possible in conjunction with the Leeds services - if it was then there might still be a path available.

 

[Watershed]

Auto reverse (or absence of) isn’t the constraint for HS2 dwells at the terminal stations -it’s passengers boarding and alighting.

Autoreverse for Crossrail is to get the trains spun without a driver in the sidings, in a short period of time.

I actually had in mind trains automatically reversing when travelling to/from the depot. But yes.

 

[Bald Rick]

I actually had in mind trains automatically reversing when travelling to/from the depot. But yes.

oh I see. Well it’s not inconceivable that trains will be getting to or from the depot without a driver at all, so, yes.

 

[adrock1976]

Quite possible, though Midlands Connect were asking for 1TPH Nottingham before the eastern leg was amputated. I don't know if anyone looked in any detail at whether that would have been possible in conjunction with the Leeds services - if it was then there might still be a path available.

Before the East Mids - Leeds HS2 arm was cancelled, did Midlands Connect ever anticipate this 1tph to run via Castle Donington, with the former station reopened?

 

[The Planner]

Before the East Mids - Leeds HS2 arm was cancelled, did Midlands Connect ever anticipate this 1tph to run via Castle Donington, with the former station reopened?

There has always been aspirations to speed Birmingham Nottingham up by going via Castle Donnington but not with a new station.

 

[adrock1976]

There has always been aspirations to speed Birmingham Nottingham up by going via Castle Donnington but not with a new station.

Many thanks.

Is this still on the cards now that the eastern arm of HS2 will be running to East Mids Parkway?

 

[edwin_m]

Before the East Mids - Leeds HS2 arm was cancelled, did Midlands Connect ever anticipate this 1tph to run via Castle Donington, with the former station reopened?

Most recently they were talking about running via a connection to classic network at Toton, which I don't believe HS2 ever committed to providing.

Many thanks.

Is this still on the cards now that the eastern arm of HS2 will be running to East Mids Parkway?

Highly unlikely, considering that the whole purpose is to accelerate Birmingham-Nottingham and running via HS2 will accelerate it much more. Likely there would still be some service via Derby for the intermediate stations.

 

[Lovewalks]

Hello, I’m trying to understand the impact Hs2 could have on the Pickmere area in Cheshire East, is anyone able to advise please?

 

[Watershed]

Hello, I’m trying to understand the impact Hs2 could have on the Pickmere area in Cheshire East, is anyone able to advise please?

The HS2 route map shows exactly what the planned route is. If you select the box closest to where you're concerned about you'll be able to view a map indicating which properties will be affected and/or able to claim to compensation.

Certainly if your property could be subject to compulsory purchase, or if any access is required etc. then I imagine they would already have been in touch to discuss the matter.