HS2 Crewe-Manchester Bill Published

[LNW-GW Joint]

The government PR machine is in full swing with advance notice that the HS2 Phase 2b Bill for the Crewe-Manchester extension will reach Parliament today.
The details are not yet visible, but it appears to exclude the northern part of the loop from Rostherne back to the WCML at Golborne. Edit: Yes it's included.
The map published on the BBC site shows it as a dotted line, similar to the abandoned eastern leg to Leeds/York.
There's a solid line to Warrington though, and mention of Warrington in the text, plus junctions at Crewe, Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly (the last two for NPR).
It's not clear what all that means.
The "potential" upgraded hub at Crewe doesn't quite make it into the bill either, maybe that is left to NR to develop.

North West on track to benefit from faster and more reliable train journeys as bill for next phase of HS2 to be laid in Parliament

Bill to extend HS2 from Crewe to Manchester, creating a new transport spine across the North West that will reduce journey times and boost local economies.

www.gov.uk

• government to lay bill to extend HS2 from Crewe up to Manchester and beyond, creating 17,500 direct jobs across the North
• this is a major phase of the £96 billion commitment in the Integrated Rail Plan to deliver faster and better journeys across the North quicker than under previous plans
• new High Speed stations will also be built at Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport, making way for new lines to Leeds and Liverpool, as part of Northern Powerhouse Rail

Bill extending HS2 to Manchester laid in Parliament

Official approval for the high speed line to Manchester is a "landmark moment", says the government.

www.bbc.co.uk

The announcement is also on the HS2 web site, where the map does appear to show the Golborne link as part of the Bill.

HS2’s journey north accelerates as Bill extending the route to Manchester is handed to Parliament

52-mile extension of high speed network to Manchester via Manchester Airport set to support 17,500 jobs HS2 Phase 2B Western Leg will double capacity between Manchester and London, and more than treble capacity between Manchester and Birmingham HS2 CEO: “This Bill is a vote of confidence in...

mediacentre.hs2.org.uk

It also has this unclear paragraph on the Crewe hub:

Investment would also give the green light for a new junction north of Crewe, known as the Crewe Northern Connection, for a future NPR scheme which could allow up to seven high-speed trains per hour to call at the town. As well as boosting connectivity to the heritage railway town, the infrastructure facilitates better links between Chester, North Wales and Birmingham and Shrewsbury and Manchester. Combined with the Government’s plans for Northern Powerhouse Rail, the Crewe Northern Connection could also facilitate faster journeys between Liverpool and the capital.

This is the HoC description of the HS2 Bill:

Bill to make provision for a railway between a junction with Phase 2a of High Speed 2 south of Crewe in Cheshire and Manchester Piccadilly Station; for a railway between Hoo Green in Cheshire and a junction with the West Coast Main Line at Bamfurlong, south of Wigan; and for connected purposes

Maybe we should refer to the Bamfurlong connection to the WCML, rather than Golborne.

 

[The Planner]

Crewe has always been a NR renewals scheme with HS2 tacked on.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

There's a solid line to Warrington though, and mention of Warrington in the text, plus junctions at Crewe, Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly (the last two for NPR).

There is also a solid line to Marsden - and to East Mids Parkway - which suggests the solid lines reflects the 'new plan' and that to to Warrington is the watered down HS3/NPR.

For me a missing link in the 'new plan' is a triangular junction just south of Piccadilly would enable e.g. Birmingham to Leeds to avoid reversal in Piccadilly and save possibly up to ten minutes journey time rather than be an extension of a Manchester train.

 

[Starmill]

Excellent. Still hope for Royal Assent before the planned end of the session in 2024.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Excellent. Still hope for Royal Assent before the planned end of the session in 2024.

High Speed Rail (West Midlands – Crewe) took nearly four years before it got Royal Assent so unlikely and will probably have a lot more petitioning given the area its plotted though.

 

[Starmill]

High Speed Rail (West Midlands – Crewe) took nearly four years before it got Royal Assent so unlikely and will probably have a lot more petitioning given the area its plotted though.

For a larger than expected proportion of that four years, Parliament was heavily distracted with endless Brexit legislation, including the government losing control of business in the house, or even wasn't actually sitting because it was unlawfully prorogued, or dissolved for an election.

If an election takes place earlier than the currently planned end of the session, a further delay is likely. However, as it stands three years should be sufficient.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The environmental opposition has been mobilised:

Environmental activists to stage HS2 protest in Piccadilly Gardens

It's part of a 'national day of action' to protest against the expansion of high-speed railway – as the Bill for the project is laid out in Parliament on Monday

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

It's part of a 'national day of action' to protest against the expansion of high-speed railway – as the Bill for the project is laid out in Parliament on Monday

And Andy Burnham thinks it's the "wrong plan":
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...chester-news/bill-next-phase-hs2-see-22847640

However Mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham, has slammed the plans and asked for an underground station to better 'level up' between the north and south.
He added that the development of a HS2 station above ground will mean losing prime development land and its economic opportunity.
Commenting on the current HS2 plan for Greater Manchester, he said: “We remain committed to working with the Government to bring HS2 to our city-region. But we remain of the view that this is the wrong plan, both for Greater Manchester and for the North as a whole.

 

[Dave_Cardboard]

For a larger than expected proportion of that four years, Parliament was heavily distracted with endless Brexit legislation, including the government losing control of business in the house, or even wasn't actually sitting because it was unlawfully prorogued, or dissolved for an election.

If an election takes place earlier than the currently planned end of the session, a further delay is likely. However, as it stands three years should be sufficient.

There were also some "COVID effects" causing Parliament to no sit for a while when the Bill was in the Lords.

 

[Gostav]

The environmental opposition has been mobilised:

Environmental activists to stage HS2 protest in Piccadilly Gardens

It's part of a 'national day of action' to protest against the expansion of high-speed railway – as the Bill for the project is laid out in Parliament on Monday

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

And Andy Burnham thinks it's the "wrong plan":
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...chester-news/bill-next-phase-hs2-see-22847640

Now? That's an odd timing. I believe most people are working or studying at this time.

 

[edwin_m]

The environmental opposition has been mobilised:

Environmental activists to stage HS2 protest in Piccadilly Gardens

It's part of a 'national day of action' to protest against the expansion of high-speed railway – as the Bill for the project is laid out in Parliament on Monday

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

And Andy Burnham thinks it's the "wrong plan":
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...chester-news/bill-next-phase-hs2-see-22847640

Does he want the five years (minimum) delay for re-designing for a through station in Manchester? Either that or the extra cost could kill off the Manchester leg and NPR entirely.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Overall good news. Please no more redesigns. Just get it done.

 

[Watershed]

There's a delicious irony in the HS2 Crewe-Manchester bill being published on the same day that there are 2 hour gaps between fast services on the same route.

Of course HS2 Phase 2b will only incidentally serve that flow, but it's still amazing to think that a high speed route is being built to "relieve" a line where having no fast services for 2 hours is simply an unfortunate side effect of poorly coordinated timetable reductions.

 

[Starmill]

There were also some "COVID effects" causing Parliament to no sit for a while when the Bill was in the Lords.

Ah yes. Good point.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Support business case also published to underpin the bill.

hs2-phase-2b-western-leg-crewe-to-manchester-an-update-on-the-strategic-outline-business-case

There not very ambitious for what is the smallest part of HS2

The initial cost estimate is between £15bn and £22bn (Q3 2019 prices) based on the introduction of services between 2035 and 2041.

 

[snowball]

It seems the Bill text is now finally available. Not sure where the maps are yet.

https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3094

Despite the fact that the short title just says Crewe to Manchester, the long title suggests that the Wigan arm is still in.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

For a larger than expected proportion of that four years, Parliament was heavily distracted with endless Brexit legislation, including the government losing control of business in the house, or even wasn't actually sitting because it was unlawfully prorogued, or dissolved for an election.

If an election takes place earlier than the currently planned end of the session, a further delay is likely. However, as it stands three years should be sufficient.

Reading the strategic business case which i quoted in #14 it is based on Royal Assent being achieved by 2024 so barring a general election govt business managers clearly feel its possible. We will see how it plays out from here.

 

[Starmill]

Reading the strategic business case which i quoted in #14 it is based on Royal Assent being achieved by 2024

That is what was stated when the design refinement consultation was done yes. Has only been a 4-6 month delay in depositing the bill, following on from the conclusions of the IRP and Union Connectivity Review. The government's responses to that consultation are also published today.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jan 2022 ==

There not very ambitious for what is the smallest part of HS2

It sounds pretty reasonable to me if another hybrid bill comes along in 2024 - 2027 to authorise the line to Marsden. It has been suggested that Coleshill - East Midlands Parkway can now be completed concurrently with this timescale via the Nationally Significant Infrastructure process too. But then I guess we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I notice that an updated IRP has also been published.

 

[Starmill]

I notice that an updated IRP has also been published.

I was just about to comment on this. I have this link but it currently doesn't seem to be working: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/strategic-alternatives-to-the-hs2-eastern-leg

No sign of the mythical technical annex. Can anyone find it please?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's still unclear in the business case what the policy on Edinburgh services is.
The principal HS2 plan with the Bamfurlong connection has 3tph Anglo-Scottish services, 2 from Euston and one from Birmingham, splitting for Glasgow/Edinburgh.
But nothing is said about the ECML level of service.
We are surely not contemplating 4tph London-Edinburgh, 2 via HS2/WCML and 2 via ECML?
The "do minimum" option of not doing the Bamfurlong link would mean the loss of both of the HS2/WCML Edinburgh services, and one of the Glasgow services.

The accompanying map (p6) actually omits the Rostherne-Manchester branch, but does include an upgraded ECML from London to Leeds/Newcastle.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I notice that an updated IRP has also been published.

Whats changed???

 

[Starmill]

It's still unclear in the business case what the policy on Edinburgh services is.
The principal HS2 plan with the Bamfurlong connection has 3tph Anglo-Scottish services, 2 from Euston and one from Birmingham, splitting for Glasgow/Edinburgh.
But nothing is said about the ECML level of service.
We are surely not contemplating 4tph London-Edinburgh, 2 via HS2/WCML and 2 via ECML?
The "do minimum" option of not doing the Bamfurlong link would mean the loss of both of the HS2/WCML Edinburgh services, and one of the Glasgow services.

The accompanying map (p6) actually omits the Rostherne-Manchester branch, but does include an upgraded ECML from London to Leeds/Newcastle.

This map?

Contains some pretty big bombshells for Leicester too. Only 1tph to Derby and Sheffield, only 1tph fast to Nottingham. Not good.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Bill text (p72) describes two works of about 1km each on the WCML, being "extension and reconfiguration" of Preston and Carlisle stations.
Presumably this is to cater for 400m trains and platforms at these locations.

This map?
Contains some pretty big bombshells for Leicester too. Only 1tph to Derby and Sheffield, only 1tph fast to Nottingham. Not good.

No, it's the colour-coded map on p6 of the Business Case update.

 

[Nottingham59]

This map?

Contains some pretty big bombshells for Leicester too. Only 1tph to Derby and Sheffield, only 1tph fast to Nottingham. Not good.

Which document did that chart of potential services come from, please? Seems to show a serious curtailment of services from Grantham and Newark ....

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I notice that an updated IRP has also been published.

I was just about to comment on this. I have this link but it currently doesn't seem to be working: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/strategic-alternatives-to-the-hs2-eastern-leg

No sign of the mythical technical annex. Can anyone find it please?

Whats changed???

Well as Starmill says - something is wrong with the website. The Dft homepage says updated January 24 2022 - but I am still searching.

What has supposed to have changed is there is now SUPPOSED to be a Technical Annex attached. So far it has taken on unicorn like features. (edit now found please see bottom of post)


On the HS2 Strategic Outline Business Case I found this in the forward by Andrew Stephenson MP

Our current Victorian rail network is the oldest in the world. After decades of
underinvestment and rapidly rising demand, it is no longer capable of supporting our 21st
century needs. We need a more resilient, reliable and sustainable railway, that can improve
opportunities for millions of people, particularly in the North and Midlands,

Now he is either being 100% honest and blunt and admitting that all parties/politicians etc are responsible for this or - well words fail me!


EDIT - FOUND IT https://assets.publishing.service.g...or-the-north-and-midlands-technical-annex.pdf

 

[Bald Rick]

This map?

Contains some pretty big bombshells for Leicester too. Only 1tph to Derby and Sheffield, only 1tph fast to Nottingham. Not good.

But… there will always be winners and losers. one of the reasons the railway is in the state it is is that the politicians want there to be ‘no bad news’.

For what it’s worth, given traffic levels Leicester to each of Derby and Nottingham, hourly is probably enough. There is also the opportunity to change at EMP To give more connected frequency (similar to how you get from Bedford to Leicester via Kettering.)

 

[deltic]

The details are not yet visible, but it appears to exclude the northern part of the loop from Rostherne back to the WCML at Golborne. Edit: Yes it's included.




Maybe we should refer to the Bamfurlong connection to the WCML, rather than Golborne.

Whatever you call it, it will not be in the Bill long as the IRP made clear.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Whatever you call it, it will not be in the Bill long as the IRP made clear.

Actually the Union Connectivity review recommended it should be extended further to somewhere south of Preston rather then end in Golbourne

 

[Nottingham59]

Union Connectivity review recommended it should be extended further to somewhere south of Preston rather then end in Golbourne

The Revised IRP states (p61):

Future possibilities: • The Union Connectivity Review is considering the case for further improvements for high speed rail services between these nations, including alternatives to the Golborne link from the HS2 Line to the West Coast Main Line.

So I don't think this has been decided yet.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

The Revised IRP states (p61):

So I don't think this has been decided yet.

But then the UCR recommended the Golbourne link should be extended further potentially to somewhere just south of Preston with further improvements north to reduce the journey time between London and Glasgow to 3 hours