HS2 construction updates

[Bald Rick]

Yep, it’s the express and star - great for coverage about Wolves football, but nothing else.

 

[Bald Rick]

One thing a level station might solve is being able to walk directly towards St Pancras from the HS2 platforms (from a concourse above the platforms) rather than having to effectively walk around the WCML platform buffer stops. Very nice and speeds the interchange to Eurostar, Thameslink etc., but comes at quite a considerable financial and disruption cost.

I think that is still the plan, albeit with a small level change to get over the classic side of the station.

 

[Ianno87]

I think that is still the plan, albeit with a small level change to get over the classic side of the station.

Though I recall the HS2 buffer stops will be much closer to Euston Rd than the WCML buffers, so much of the length of the platform won't involve any 'walking around'

 

[miami]

Though I recall the HS2 buffer stops will be much closer to Euston Rd than the WCML buffers, so much of the length of the platform won't involve any 'walking around'

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/528986/C220-ARP-CV-DPP-01A-580103-AP03-P03.pdf

4 of the tracks reach as far as the bus station

 

[Dave_Cardboard]

When will the TBMs start digging various tunnels?

Take them with a pince of salt, as this a moving target...

2021 for Chiltern TBM's suggested here... https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/commonplace-customer-assets/hs2inbucksandoxfordshire/Chalfont St Peter Event - A4 Questionnaire_191026_final_web.pdf

Power supply (to West Ruislip) for the West-Ruislip End of the Northolt Tunnels is going to take a year to install, so again suggests 2021... https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/commonplace-customer-assets/hs2inhillingdon/Hillingdon construction look ahead February 2020.pdf A "lorry routes" schedule 17 submission to London Borough of Hillingdon (presently) cites Q2 2021 as the timescale for the delivery of the West Ruislip TBM's.

For the Bromford Tunnels, again 2021 suggested here.... https://hs2inwarwicks.commonplace.is/schemes/proposals/bromford-tunnel/details

Of course, there are other tunnels. However, 2021 seems to be a "popular" year. Given that they haven't even started construction of the various launch chambers (e.g. Victoria Road box, West Ruislip portal - Chiltern portal is kind of under way) it would seem it's a year or two to build them and the "backup" systems (such as spoil handling, segment plants, etc.) before the TBM's get going.

EDIT - Long Itchington Wood TBM due to get going in December 2020 . . . https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/...te Kenilworth to Southam April 2020 (002).pdf

 

[Sceptre]

That local rag article is a copy of one I read in the middle of last week, it even quotes Richard Wellings‘ usual rubbish - he’s been in a huff ever since Evergreen 3 was approved...

I imagine that's because Evergreen 3 made it impossible to find somewhere to suggest piloting his absolutely bonkers "replace the trains with bus lanes" proposal.

 

[swt_passenger]

I imagine that's because Evergreen 3 made it impossible to find somewhere to suggest piloting his absolutely bonkers "replace the trains with bus lanes" proposal.

I find it sad that even seemingly reputable newspapers consider his opinions useful.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Is the concourse to the main station being rebuilt as well or no?

 

[Chris125]

I don't think HS2 Ltd are willing to do that any more. I'm not entirely up to speed on the HS2 station throat design but I understand they're trying to push it as far underground as possible to reduce impacts on the NR side and the surrounding area. The lower the HS2 station, the more you would need to move the WCML side just to make use of a temporary set of platforms.

There's a good overview below of the new 'cavern' design for grade separating the throat - it was still being evaluated during the Hybrid Bill process IIRC - but under review following the Oakervee report, which suggested a flat throat with less capacity.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/commonplace-cloudfront/resources/projects/hs2ineuston/Euston+v2b.compressed.pdf

 

[edwin_m]

There's a good overview below of the new 'cavern' design for grade separating the throat - it was still being evaluated during the Hybrid Bill process IIRC - but under review following the Oakervee report, which suggested a flat throat with less capacity.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/commonplace-cloudfront/resources/projects/hs2ineuston/Euston+v2b.compressed.pdf

I really don't understand the logic of cutting this feature out. It would be virtually impossible to add later without a prolonged closure (unless all the difficult bits were put in now) so permanently reduces the capacity of the route.

 

[Bald Rick]

Is the concourse to the main station being rebuilt as well or no?

Probably, but not confirmed yet (and won’t be for some time).

 

[MarkRedon]

Apparently Birmingham City Council has given planning approval for Curzon Street station:
"
HS2’s new landmark Curzon Street station in Birmingham, set to be one of the most environmentally-friendly railway stations in the world, has been given planning permission by Birmingham City Council.

Three planning applications for the new station and the surrounding landscaping were approved by the Council’s planning committee on 23 April, with the Council’s report concluding the station design “is truly world class”
" https://www.railpro.co.uk/news/curz...s-first-hs2-station-to-gain-planning-approval

I remain unclear how seamless / accessible will be the walking routes to Moor Street and New Street stations.

 

[quantinghome]

I remain unclear how seamless / accessible will be the walking routes to Moor Street and New Street stations.

It would have been better to have had an expanded Curzon St as Birmingham's main station, then kept New St as a regional/commuter station only - similar to Brussels South and Central. But that would have further added to HS2's cost.

AFAIUI the walk from Curzon St to New St is short, about 5 minutes. Not seamless, but nonetheless fairly convenient.

 

[si404]

It would have been better to have had an expanded Curzon St as Birmingham's main station, then kept New St as a regional/commuter station only - similar to Brussels South and Central. But that would have further added to HS2's cost.

Not if it was built to replace/improve on New Street instead of the recentish upgrades! But hindsight is a wonderful thing - but it really didn't take long for that hindsight to hit.

 

[camflyer]

It would have been better to have had an expanded Curzon St as Birmingham's main station, then kept New St as a regional/commuter station only - similar to Brussels South and Central. But that would have further added to HS2's cost.

AFAIUI the walk from Curzon St to New St is short, about 5 minutes. Not seamless, but nonetheless fairly convenient.

Is that the plan anyway - Curzon St will become the "main" station with long distance services and New St for regional/commuter services

I'm sure that as part of the redevelopment process the walking route will be improved with better signposting, landscaping and weatherproofing.

 

[Chris NS]

I do wish they'd given more thought to integrating HS2 with the existing railways at Birmingham. I gather it was considered, but not much, as all I can find is a few sentences saying this option was explored and not progressed. Contrast this to phase 2, where all sorts of integration is being explored in the north, and this seems like a missed opportunity.

At the very least, I'd liked to have seen a discussion on what kind of through services could be offered and how difficult it would be to provide this. It would certainly have been a more productive discussion than endless re-debating Rail Package 2 that clearly wasn't going to work.

 

[Meerkat]

Apologies if I should already understand this....
How much of HS2 is design frozen, ready to dig?
Within Phase 1 and 2a do they start building everywhere, or is it phased within that, for construction capacity reasons maybe?
What might be finished first? Was just thinking that Birmingham CS to B Interchange including the maintenance depot would be a good test track or even an early trial service - airport shuttle and P&R to the city centre.....
Lastly is any of 2b design fixed enough to start building (and worth starting early)? I can only think of Manchester Airport station. Could you build Crewe station (would be less disruptive if there was less rush) and the line to north of Wigan which would be good for WCML capacity, or are the NPR connections too up in the air?

 

[The Planner]

Only phase 1 has royal assent and is at a point to be mobilised to start. 2B is a long way from starting. They will need a substantial part of it complete before they can test at high speeds, rolling stock will also likely been seen on the WCML before it opens too. The maintenance depot is at Calvert, not Washwood Heath as thats the rolling stock depot and control centre. Crewe isn't a HS2 scheme in the main, it is a NR job as it needs resignalling anyway. Crewe would still have major works even if HS2 was cancelled.

 

[Bald Rick]

Apologies if I should already understand this....
How much of HS2 is design frozen, ready to dig?
Within Phase 1 and 2a do they start building everywhere, or is it phased within that, for construction capacity reasons maybe?
What might be finished first? Was just thinking that Birmingham CS to B Interchange including the maintenance depot would be a good test track or even an early trial service - airport shuttle and P&R to the city centre.....
Lastly is any of 2b design fixed enough to start building (and worth starting early)? I can only think of Manchester Airport station. Could you build Crewe station (would be less disruptive if there was less rush) and the line to north of Wigan which would be good for WCML capacity, or are the NPR connections too up in the air?

Phase 1 is ready to go, and has been for about 18 months. Design is never ‘complete’ until it’s actually built, however it is sufficiently complete (although I don’t know what proportion of the design has reached ‘approved for construction’ phase.)

2a design will be being worked on now it is in the final stages of the parliamentary process; although it does not have consent there is more than enough that is not subject to further debate and can be progressed.

2b is nowhere near ready in design terms, and construction could not start in any event before the bill is passed.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The final Phase 1 leg design from Old Oak to Euston is still not settled though (grade separation etc).
I imagine the rest of Phase 1 will be planned to be finished around the same time.
But one might imagine Birmingham-Calvert or Birmingham-Handsacre being used for early testing if the southern section with the long tunnels is delayed.
The trains can't be tested on HS1 as they will have ETCS rather than TVM cab signalling.
Maybe we'll have some of the ECML fitted with ETCS by then (south of Grantham).
I somehow doubt they'll be visiting the Cambrian for tests!

 

[edwin_m]

I do wish they'd given more thought to integrating HS2 with the existing railways at Birmingham. I gather it was considered, but not much, as all I can find is a few sentences saying this option was explored and not progressed. Contrast this to phase 2, where all sorts of integration is being explored in the north, and this seems like a missed opportunity.

At the very least, I'd liked to have seen a discussion on what kind of through services could be offered and how difficult it would be to provide this. It would certainly have been a more productive discussion than endless re-debating Rail Package 2 that clearly wasn't going to work.

Welcome to the forum, but please note that this thread is for discussion of what is actually being constructed. There was a long debate on connections in Birmingham only a week or two ago on the thread below, which you may wish to review and add to:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hs2-useful-additions-to-attract-more-passengers.203328/

 

[The Planner]

The final Phase 1 leg design from Old Oak to Euston is still not settled though (grade separation etc).
I imagine the rest of Phase 1 will be planned to be finished around the same time.
But one might imagine Birmingham-Calvert or Birmingham-Handsacre being used for early testing if the southern section with the long tunnels is delayed.
The trains can't be tested on HS1 as they will have ETCS rather than TVM cab signalling.
Maybe we'll have some of the ECML fitted with ETCS by then (south of Grantham).
I somehow doubt they'll be visiting the Cambrian for tests!

Not sure what stops them testing on tracks with lights on sticks?

 

[Bald Rick]

Not sure what stops them testing on tracks with lights on sticks?

Nothing, but I agree that testing on HS1 is unlikely. Testing on any of the LGVs with ETCS is more likely, but still quite remote.

 

[JonathanH]

Nothing, but I agree that testing on HS1 is unlikely. Testing on any of the LGVs with ETCS is more likely, but still quite remote.

Doesn't it depend on which company gets the contract to supply the trains? Each would have different thoughts on where to do testing depending on where they have a suitable base from which to do the testing.

 

[furnessvale]

Is that the plan anyway - Curzon St will become the "main" station with long distance services and New St for regional/commuter services

I'm sure that as part of the redevelopment process the walking route will be improved with better signposting, landscaping and weatherproofing.

Add a travelator and you are not too far removed from some existing stations with remote platforms.

 

[Dave_Cardboard]

In recent evidence to the transport select committee, Minister for HS2 was saying they are still planning for an 18tph service (and the full Y network) - this suggests to me that they are still committed to the "three tunnels" approach to Euston despite the vexatious court case of a certain Camden NIMBY.

 

[city dweller]

I posted this in the Curzon thread a couple of days ago but as this the HS2 constuction thread I'll post it here also. Shows Curzon Street April 2nd - 7th

 

[si404]

Went through/past several HS2-related roadworks between Amersham and Great Missenden earlier and the quality of the surrounding traffic management bumpf is high to perhaps the point of overkill - incredibly well signed, loads of cones. If this is good enough to close off a lane on the M4, you definitely don't need a solid line of cones with no gaps between them to close a lane off on the A413.

The Bucks CC roadworks that have taken place recently are very spartan in comparison despite being on the same roads - sure, they are shorter in duration - a day rather than several weeks - but you don't need a big portable variable message sign to say "Roadworks from April 27th to July", even if you don't go as cheap as having a write-the-date-on signs that Bucks CC uses.

Hopefully the end product will be as gold-plated as these prep works are!

 

[Bald Rick]

Went through/past several HS2-related roadworks between Amersham and Great Missenden earlier and the quality of the surrounding traffic management bumpf is high to perhaps the point of overkill - incredibly well signed, loads of cones. If this is good enough to close off a lane on the M4, you definitely don't need a solid line of cones with no gaps between them to close a lane off on the A413.

The Bucks CC roadworks that have taken place recently are very spartan in comparison despite being on the same roads - sure, they are shorter in duration - a day rather than several weeks - but you don't need a big portable variable message sign to say "Roadworks from April 27th to July", even if you don't go as cheap as having a write-the-date-on signs that Bucks CC uses.

Hopefully the end product will be as gold-plated as these prep works are!

It’s likely that all the traffic management info was a requirement of Bucks CC. Even though they don’t use the same principles themselves!

 

[si404]

It’s likely that all the traffic management info was a requirement of Bucks CC. Even though they don’t use the same principles themselves!

Perhaps. But the prep-for-the-prep roadworks last year weren't anywhere near as fancy, IIRC. They seemed like what private companies put out - not as austere as Bucks CC, but not ostentatious like now!