HS2 Announced Tomorrow

[Christopher125]

There is no real argument when it comes to Heathrow, its just political point scoring.

Labour (and the LibDems) favour interchange with Crossrail - the Tories want the Heathrow Hub, which would still mean people changing trains to get to their terminal but at a vast and unneccesary cost to the overall scheme.

Chris

 

[Failed Unit]

There is no real argument when it comes to Heathrow, its just political point scoring.

Labour (and the LibDems) favour interchange with Crossrail - the Tories want the Heathrow Hub, which would still mean people changing trains to get to their terminal but at a vast and unneccesary cost to the overall scheme.

Chris

If you are flying from Manchester / Edinburgh / Newcastle - Cape Town, you will probably still just fly down to Heathrow. Going beyond Heathrow the high speed line will have very little to help. You check your baggage in at your airport and that is it, or you drag it around with you. If all the domestic flights stopped people would just route via other hubs anyway from regional airports with no direct links. I don't think using rail as the spokes to an air hub will work.

I would be interested to know how many passengers on the existing Newcastle / Manchester flights are going beyond London by air. There can't be many places in Central London from these towns that it is quicker to fly to, unless you live in say Gosforth and what to go to Acton.

 

[gordonthemoron]

You can check in Lufthansa luggage at Cologne Hbf for flights out of Frankfurt airport and catch the train there. Should be possible in the UK to do something similar

 

[Deerfold]

You can check in Lufthansa luggage at Cologne Hbf for flights out of Frankfurt airport and catch the train there. Should be possible in the UK to do something similar

You used to be able to check in at Victoria for Gatwick.

(This link even suggests you still can, though I think it is wrong:http://autoeurope.raileurope.com/activities/gatwick-express/index.html)

 

[Failed Unit]

You can check in Lufthansa luggage at Cologne Hbf for flights out of Frankfurt airport and catch the train there. Should be possible in the UK to do something similar

I doubt it as Deerfold states you used to be able to check in at Victoria. The 460's were designed with a nice big baggage area for this. I think security scared them off. Likewise Heathrow I am sure used to have the option to check in at Paddington.

It is a pity as I used the Victoria one many times, seemed a lot better than the ones at the airports.

If we used to do it before and now don't I can't see the airline baggage terminals springing up at Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[jopsuk]

(wandering a bit off topic) there's a new airport line in Thailand, to Suvarnabhumi airport that is using class 360s. The four car versions for the airport express service have a baggage car designed to handle luggage pallets of the type used for loading long haul aircraft, with secure ("air side") loading facilites at each end, so that luggage can be fully checked in before boarding the train.

 

[WatcherZero]

If you are flying from Manchester / Edinburgh / Newcastle - Cape Town, you will probably still just fly down to Heathrow. Going beyond Heathrow the high speed line will have very little to help. You check your baggage in at your airport and that is it, or you drag it around with you. If all the domestic flights stopped people would just route via other hubs anyway from regional airports with no direct links. I don't think using rail as the spokes to an air hub will work.

I would be interested to know how many passengers on the existing Newcastle / Manchester flights are going beyond London by air. There can't be many places in Central London from these towns that it is quicker to fly to, unless you live in say Gosforth and what to go to Acton.

Since privatisation the number flying between Manchester and Heathrow only has declined by 80%, the governments hoping HS2 reduces it by another 11%. on the other hand the number avoiding flying from Edinburgh/Glasgow has only been 20% so far and would probably only decrease another 10-20% (my estimate)

 

[CosherB]

Since privatisation the number flying between Manchester and Heathrow only has declined by 80%, the governments hoping HS2 reduces it by another 11%. on the other hand the number avoiding flying from Edinburgh/Glasgow has only been 20% so far and would probably only decrease another 10-20% (my estimate)

But... as traffic rises on WCML, if the resulting lack of capacity leads to delays / poor service on the railway it will push passengers back to air travel. We can't stand still, as demand for travel is on the up. If Rail is even to maintain that 80% share, never mind increase it, we need more rail capacity. HS2 is essential if only for that!

 

[jon0844]

Looking at the time for when HS2 will be finished, we have to bear in mind that successive governments are likely to see fuel costs rising hugely - and if tax is ever levied on aviation fuel, it's game over for the low cost airlines!

Obviously trains will cost more to run too (as will cars), but trains will always be greener than whatever Boeing or Airbus do to plane engines (as they get more efficient, so will those for cars and trains).

One day, land based travel may well make flying something reserved either for the very well off, or only for the long-haul routes.

That is unless we invent some amazing new energy source, or can source oil cheaply in the next 20-30 years.

Rail has to be the way to go. It might just keep air travel going that much longer for when rail isn't an option.

 

[campainr]

In my opinion a "250mph" line is pointless unless it is joined up with HS1 and the Chunnel. One reason people don't take Eurostar (as well as the price) is the hassle in London. This planned line serves no purpose whatsoever, as people traveling by train from say Paris to Manchester still have the hassle of hauling luggage across London, which is no way to welcome people to the UK. Direct International services between the North and France would be much more reason for a High Speed route. The Conservatives aren't thinking "Green" by linking with Heathrow, people have already arrived by plane from Europe by then. If this line is going to reduce carbon emissions, we need to go the whole way and link it with the rest of Europe.

The line definitely needs to be built, but the money spent to bring it to 200mph+ capability is wasted unless a link with the continent is included.

 

[royaloak]

This planned line serves no purpose whatsoever, as people traveling by train from say Paris to Manchester still have the hassle of hauling luggage across London.

St pancras is next door to Euston, no real difference to changing platforms, hardly "hauling luggage across London".

 

[tripleseis]

But surely they could build a spur linking HS1 with HS2, skipping Euston and St Pancras. Then Scotland/Manchester/Birmingham services bound for France and beyond could skip Central London if they so wish to.

 

[Mojo]

Details on the announcement made today is being discussed in this thread:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=31127