HS2 and freight

[ABB125]

Does anyone know what the position of rail freight will be once HS2 opens? I know there will be lost of released capacity on the WCML post opening, but will freight travel on HS2?

Also, I know there has been lots of debate about an HS1-HS2 link, but I would have thought it would be sensible to build one to European guage, so that large guage freight from Europe could travel much further than Barking before having to be unloaded.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Ironside]

Does anyone know what the position of rail freight will be once HS2 opens? I know there will be lost of released capacity on the WCML post opening, but will freight travel on HS2?

Also, I know there has been lots of debate about an HS1-HS2 link, but I would have thought it would be sensible to build one to European guage, so that large guage freight from Europe could travel much further than Barking before having to be unloaded.

What are your thoughts?

It's intended that freight will not run on HS2. The idea being that the line will be so full of high speed trains there will not be any paths for slow moving freight. They could run them during early morning hours but the time is reserved for maintainance.

 

[edwin_m]

HS2 will have bi-directional signalling and crossovers at intervals, so it might be possible to run a small amount of freight outside passenger traffic hours as it does on HS1, "weaving" as necessary to avoid engineering possessions.

However this is not intended to happen and in fact doing so would have less benefit than it does on HS1. It can't be used to get Continental wagons further into the UK than Dagenham, as there will be no UIC-gauge link between HS1 and HS2, and the speed benefit of being able to run at 75mph continuously on HS2 rather than 75mph most of the time on the WCML isn't enough to justify the hassle of using HS2 instead. There is also no running connection planned between HS2 and the classic network in the London area or indeed anywhere south of Lichfield. The furthest south will be at the Calvert maintenance depot, but it wouldn't exactly be ideal to shunt a through freight in what are essentially engineers' sidings.

 

[Ianno87]

As well as the daytime capacity limitation, there's not actually that many connections proposed between HS2 and the existing network that would actually be useful for freight flows anyway, especially since the HS1-HS2 link via Camden Road has been dropped.

Not sure if there'll be any physical connection with East West Rail around Calvert, but that would be the most useful if it existed and formed a west-to-north curve.

Most (if not all) of the more northern connections generally are to access HS2 heading south.

 

[quantinghome]

Is there any type of freight that would actually be in the market for high speed? Mail perhaps?

 

[HSTEd]

Unfortunately the loading gauge of HS1 and HS2 are too small for any really useful freight operations that could not be performed on the classic network, even if a link was to be fitted between them.
[if both were Chunnel gauge then it would be a different story, you could run flat TOFC or even double 8'6" containers from Calais to vicinity Manchester].
Also electric haul freight can easily manage higher speeds than 75mph.
Double stack trains in the US approach 80mph [79mph in non cab signalled areas] regularly and some bits on BNSF territory manage 90mph thanks to ancient train stop equipment.

 

[The Planner]

As well as the daytime capacity limitation, there's not actually that many connections proposed between HS2 and the existing network that would actually be useful for freight flows anyway, especially since the HS1-HS2 link via Camden Road has been dropped.

Not sure if there'll be any physical connection with East West Rail around Calvert, but that would be the most useful if it existed and formed a west-to-north curve.

Most (if not all) of the more northern connections generally are to access HS2 heading south.

Ad Edwin has already noted, apart from Handsacre at the north end the only other connection will be at Calvert but this is through the IMD and will connect through Claydon Loop on E-W.

 

[ABB125]

Thanks for the replies.

 

[broadgage]

For the reasons already given by others, I do not expect any significant "classic" freight to use HS2.

I can however see a demand for light but urgent freight including mail and parcels going on HS2.
Unlikely to justify a whole train, but there might be a case for building some mail vans that can be added to passenger trains.
Built to the same basic design as passenger vehicles but without seats and with wide doors.

 

[edwin_m]

For the reasons already given by others, I do not expect any significant "classic" freight to use HS2.

I can however see a demand for light but urgent freight including mail and parcels going on HS2.
Unlikely to justify a whole train, but there might be a case for building some mail vans that can be added to passenger trains.
Built to the same basic design as passenger vehicles but without seats and with wide doors.

Virtually impossible that parcels coaches could be added to passenger trains, as they will be fixed-formation EMUs, the HS2 stations will not have the facilities for shunting and anything else coupled to two coupled HS2 sets will exceed the platform length at Euston and other new stations. The trains could have some sort of dedicated parcels compartment but I think it's very unlikely.

 

[broadgage]

Virtually impossible that parcels coaches could be added to passenger trains, as they will be fixed-formation EMUs, the HS2 stations will not have the facilities for shunting and anything else coupled to two coupled HS2 sets will exceed the platform length at Euston and other new stations. The trains could have some sort of dedicated parcels compartment but I think it's very unlikely.

Yes, but, IIRC the passenger trains will be designed such that they can be lengthened, and presumably an extra vehicle for mail and parcels could be added as readily as an extra passenger coach.
No shunting required in normal service, once the mail or parcel coach is a part of the train it remains thus, at least until the next depot visit.

 

[Roast Veg]

That would be a tremendous waste of platform space, which is at a premium.

 

[edwin_m]

I haven't seen anything that suggests the passenger trains will be able to be lengthened. The infrastructure is designed around 200m units that can run in pairs.