HS2 and Cross Country Servives

[MidlandMainlie]

Hi,

I am new to the forum so apologise if this question has been asked already but would it be possible to rote some cross country survives from say Bristol to Newcastle via High Speed 2 eastern branch when it is built, and what infrastructure works would be necessary to achieve this apart from electrification of Bristol to Birmingham line.

 

[SS4]

I don't think so, I don't have any stats to hand but IIRC the service pattern will not allow any extra HS2 trains

 

[RobShipway]

I don't think so, I don't have any stats to hand but IIRC the service pattern will not allow any extra HS2 trains

Some parts of the Bristol to Newcastle route are going to be electrified as part of the GWML electrification before HS2 is built anyway, however I think you will find that the part up the Lickey cannot be electrified and if HS2 is built behind Birmingham, then if HS2 is use for trains from Bristol to Newcastle then it would be that part of the HS2 route that is used.

That would not be any point in the Bristol to Newcastle Cross Country service using the HS2 route south of Birmingham.

 

[ainsworth74]

however I think you will find that the part up the Lickey cannot be electrified

Why not?

 

[matt]

Why not?

It will be electrified as far as Bromsgrove as an extension of the Birmingham cross-city so no reason that the Lickey can't be electrified.

 

[RobShipway]

It will be electrified as far as Bromsgrove as an extension of the Birmingham cross-city so no reason that the Lickey can't be electrified.

I thought I read somewhere that there is width restrictions through the Lickey for the Electrification to be done, hence why Cross Country would be needing Hybrid IEP's?

 

[ainsworth74]

hence why Cross Country would be needing Hybrid IEP's?

Since when have XC been getting IEP?

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought I read somewhere that there is width restrictions through the Lickey for the Electrification to be done, hence why Cross Country would be needing Hybrid IEP's?

The only restriction seems to be that an increased EMU service following electrification requires a turnback platform, and they also want to use longer trains. The existing platforms cannot be extended in situ, neither can a turnback be provided, so the agreed solution is to move the station and cover all the requirements in one job lot.

This has possibly been misconstrued as electrification cannot be done, but AIUI the only thing stopping this work is getting it funded - for which the local authority has to bring in private development money.

 

[LE Greys]

Since when have XC been getting IEP?

I'd assume they'd get the pick of FGW's HSTs when IEP gets introduced. They can shorten them if they wish.

Come to think of it, will XC's paths on the northern ECML be useful for a Leeds-Edinburgh extension of HS2b? I'm assuming they would want to run trains right through, or at least as far as Newcastle. We might see XC terminating everything at Leeds with HS2 domestic carrying passengers from there on.

 

[RobShipway]

Since when have XC been getting IEP?

Unfortunately any of the DFT documentation is giving error 404 document not found, but I did read in one of them that IEP would not only be going to East Coast and the GWML plus local routes out of King Cross/St Pancras but would also be replacing the HST/Voyagers on Cross Country. Admittedly, I think that was before the current government reduced the order.

 

[ainsworth74]

but I did read in one of them that IEP would not only be going to East Coast and the GWML plus local routes out of King Cross/St Pancras but would also be replacing the HST/Voyagers on Cross Country.

That might have been the plan originally but it's no longer. At present (at least this is my understanding) we are getting IEP on GWML to replace most HST services apart from those to Plymouth and Penzance as well as getting it on the ECML to replace the HSTs and also to run the commuter services out to Kings Lynn.

 

[sprinterguy]

Crosscountry would need a fleet of Classic Compatible HS2 trains if they were to run over High Speed 2, and some fairly extensive electrification of the South West leg of XC would be needed depending on how much of a reshake the XC network witnesses due to the opening of HS2, which I imagine could be quite extensive, and I have my own ideas of how the post-HS2 redrawn XC network could look.

Also, as far as I am aware there are no plans to link HS2 into the "classic" WCML through International, only into the Trent Valley around Lichfield, so it would be impossible for Crosscountry trains to access HS2 around the West Midlands.

Crosscountry is one of the few operators that I think could actually draw a decent amount of benefit from the Bi-mode IEP, whereas the requirement for bi-mode in many of the currently proposed areas could be negated by doing a proper job of electrification; such as extending the GWML wires to Swansea and the Scottish electrification schemes pushed through to reach Aberdeen. Some "proper length" (Eight carriages is currently passing as "proper length" in the IEP order, which is disappointing when ten carriages were originally proposed, but at least the carriages are longer) trains on Crosscountry, allowing some of the pathetically puny 220s to be cascaded to more regional duties, would certainly be welcome.

As for electrifying the Lickey incline, as others have said there are no issues with it and the Bromsgrove scheme is reasonably well advanced in the planning stages.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Crosscountry would need a fleet of Classic Compatible HS2 trains if they were to run over High Speed 2, and some fairly extensive electrification of the South West leg of XC would be needed depending on how much of a reshake the XC network witnesses due to the opening of HS2, which I imagine could be quite extensive, and I have my own ideas of how the post-HS2 redrawn XC network could look.

Also, as far as I am aware there are no plans to link HS2 into the "classic" WCML through International, only into the Trent Valley around Lichfield, so it would be impossible for Crosscountry trains to access HS2 around the West Midlands.

True, my original thinking was that XC high speed would still call at New Street rather then Curzon Street to avoid having to reverse and would access HS2 at the Lichfield junction with the WCML, but would a junction between HS2 and the Birmingham - Peterborough line in the Coleshill area be better just to the south of where the Y network splits, as HS2 passes over the line a link between the two could be provided.

Crosscountry is one of the few operators that I think could actually draw a decent amount of benefit from the Bi-mode IEP, whereas the requirement for bi-mode in many of the currently proposed areas could be negated by doing a proper job of electrification; such as extending the GWML wires to Swansea and the Scottish electrification schemes pushed through to reach Aberdeen. Some "proper length" (Eight carriages is currently passing as "proper length" in the IEP order, which is disappointing when ten carriages were originally proposed, but at least the carriages are longer) trains on Crosscountry, allowing some of the pathetically puny 220s to be cascaded to more regional duties, would certainly be welcome.

As for electrifying the Lickey incline, as others have said there are no issues with it and the Bromsgrove scheme is reasonably well advanced in the planning stages.

Agreed BI-mode IEP's and electrification would make cross country services much better.

 

[MCR247]

OR you could just build a panto car for 220s/221s

 

[Greenback]

OR you could just build a panto car for 220s/221s

Oh no you couldn't

(I'm getting my coat...)

 

[tbtc]

Oh no you couldn't

(I'm getting my coat...)

Your coat?

IT'S BEHIND YOU...

(sorry)

 

[MCR247]

Your coat? Its behind you

EDIT: Dammit didn't know there was another page!

 

[RobShipway]

I presume Greenback exited stage left to get his coat?

 

[starrymarkb]

It will be electrified as far as Bromsgrove as an extension of the Birmingham cross-city so no reason that the Lickey can't be electrified.

In fact to get to Bromsgrove it will involve wiring the Lickey.... Bromsgrove is at the bottom, the wires currently start at Barnt Green (just beyond the summit)