How will the election results affect trains in Scotland & Wales?

[tbtc]

It looks like we will have an SNP government in Holyrood and Labour will be able to govern in Cardiff Bay without the need for Plaid (based on results known so far)

How do you think this will affect current train provision?

In Scotland I'd expect little change, maybe more chance of continued electrification projects (beyond those commited to) - can anyone remind me whether GARL was a Labour or an SNP idea?

In Wales, that may well mean the end of "Gerald One" (but AIUI the contract has already been signed on "Gerald Two"?), but have Labour commited to any rail improvements (not read the Welsh manifesto)

 

[Oliver]

It looks like we will have an SNP government in Holyrood and Labour will be able to govern in Cardiff Bay without the need for Plaid (based on results known so far)

How do you think this will affect current train provision?

In Scotland I'd expect little change, maybe more chance of continued electrification projects (beyond those commited to) - can anyone remind me whether GARL was a Labour or an SNP idea?

In Wales, that may well mean the end of "Gerald One" (but AIUI the contract has already been signed on "Gerald Two"?), but have Labour commited to any rail improvements (not read the Welsh manifesto)

Whoever wins there will be very little money to spend, so no reason to expect much new.

 

[Invincibles]

Not sure about the Labour overall majority in Wales, it does look like they will fall one seat short.

Not sure what it means for the railways in Wales, I would imagine it can go two ways. Either they will want to pressurise Westminster with schemes in Wales that do not join up unless they are matched from the London end. Or, they will simply go for a reduced spending program to show a new responsible era (knowing full well that they can later blame Tory cuts)

 

[jones_bangor]

In Wales, that may well mean the end of "Gerald One" (but AIUI the contract has already been signed on "Gerald Two"?), but have Labour commited to any rail improvements (not read the Welsh manifesto)

There is no real reason to expect this service to be cut, the cost is peanuts in terms of the big picture.

Time for WAG to take the axe to the DfT tentacles and take full control of Welsh railways.

 

[rail-britain]

In Scotland I'd expect little change, maybe more chance of continued electrification projects (beyond those commited to) - can anyone remind me whether GARL was a Labour or an SNP idea?

GARL was effectively a Labour proposal, supported by the SNP
Ironically, it was Iain Gray the then Transport Minister that announed it in 2002 (towards the end of the first Scottish Parliament session)
The scheme was put forward by SPT and finally approved in the second Scottish Parliament

The project was cancelled by the previous coalition, much to the disgust of SNP members, but something had to give

 

[radamfi]

Just looked at the SNP manifesto. Apparently, they pledge to introduce 4 trains an hour on the Bathgate Airdrie line!

But seriously, there could be a devolution of the Scottish bit of Network Rail and integrate it more.

 

[Andrew Nelson]

"How do you think this will affect current train provision?"

Well, they all may have to Stop at Gretna or Berwick on Tweed, for Passport Control.

 

[Zoe]

Well, they all may have to Stop at Gretna or Berwick on Tweed, for Passport Control.

I doubt there would be border controls between Scotland and the United Kingdon of Southern Great Britain and Northern Ireland (if that's what the change the name of the country to) though. There are no border controls between the UK and Ireland.

 

[Blindtraveler]

As mentioned elsewhere, a new Scotrail Franchise will be let in 2014 and as its a bit away yet this could well be interesting as the next wil I guess include renewal and replacement of older stock and the ongoing juggling act which is the need for extracapacity. All that on top of central Scotland electrification. I think First have a chance here but wonder ie industrial problems pre A to B will affect it?

Personally I'd say scrapping the WAG Expresses would be bad politically and not set any govenment minoritty or not in a good place. another juggling act here with ATW trying to get the best they can out of mainly BR sprinters and Pacers. Whens there franchise up? And how does it work there, are WAG responsible for it?

 

[rail-britain]

Just looked at the SNP manifesto. Apparently, they pledge to introduce 4 trains an hour on the Bathgate Airdrie line!

That would be appropriate when it was written, as the project only introduced 2 trains per hour
Clearly written by someone referring to local complaints and not researching the issue

[As with all winning parties, once the election is over, throw the manifesto away and just make it up as you go along]

The SNP are assigning £50m to future transport projects, all of them are road based
The main road and rail projects already underway or proposed continue

Therefore if you read page 13, there is nothing new, but thankfully nothing amended, removed, or cancelled
Equally, references are made to recent improvements and it makes it look like the SNP were responsible for these (Airdrie to Bathgate, Class 380 units, and the proposed Highland rail improvement)

One final note is the currently extended ScotRail franchise (original expiry October 2011 extended to November 2014) will be renewed during this term and this process will commence quite shortly
Again, note no mention of this in the SNP manifesto (but equally I can't find any reference in any other parties)

 

[tbtc]

If I'd heard that the SNP would have a majority a few days ago I'd have expected more of a focus on trains to the corner of the country (Angus, Aberdeenshire etc).

However, the gains they've made in the central belt may mean a more "balanced" focus.

 

[LE Greys]

I doubt there would be border controls between Scotland and the United Kingdon of Southern Great Britain and Northern Ireland (if that's what the change the name of the country to) though. There are no border controls between the UK and Ireland.

But with London constantly threatening to reintroduce British Standard Time, we might see people crossing the border in winter having to put their watches back an hour (or forward if they're going the other way).

 

[Zoe]

But with London constantly threatening to reintroduce British Standard Time, we might see people crossing the border in winter having to put their watches back an hour (or forward if they're going the other way).

It wouldn't be British Standard Time though, Central European Time would be used during the Winter but clocks would go forward a further hour in the Summer. Should the UK change to Central European Time Ireland and an indpendent Scotland may well follow suit.

 

[Scotrail84]

As mentioned elsewhere, a new Scotrail Franchise will be let in 2014 and as its a bit away yet this could well be interesting as the next wil I guess include renewal and replacement of older stock and the ongoing juggling act which is the need for extracapacity. All that on top of central Scotland electrification. I think First have a chance here but wonder ie industrial problems pre A to B will affect it?

Personally I'd say scrapping the WAG Expresses would be bad politically and not set any govenment minoritty or not in a good place. another juggling act here with ATW trying to get the best they can out of mainly BR sprinters and Pacers. Whens there franchise up? And how does it work there, are WAG responsible for it?

Electrification may get scrapped as the country is skint as they say.

I cant see it happening by 2016

 

[tbtc]

What were the SNP's policies for a new Forth bridge? Was it to have a railway line in the middle? Or am I getting confused

 

[scotsman]

If I'd heard that the SNP would have a majority a few days ago I'd have expected more of a focus on trains to the corner of the country (Angus, Aberdeenshire etc).

However, the gains they've made in the central belt may mean a more "balanced" focus.

They're in the pocket of bus-bandit Soutar, pro-rail they ain't!

 

[tbtc]

They're in the pocket of bus-bandit Soutar, pro-rail they ain't!

Stagecoach to win next ScotRail franchise?

 

[Zoe]

What were the SNP's policies for a new Forth bridge? Was it to have a railway line in the middle? Or am I getting confused

The new forth bridge is to be a motorway standard road bridge. The contract has already been signed and construction should start later this year.

 

[anthony263]

As mentioned elsewhere, a new Scotrail Franchise will be let in 2014 and as its a bit away yet this could well be interesting as the next wil I guess include renewal and replacement of older stock and the ongoing juggling act which is the need for extracapacity. All that on top of central Scotland electrification. I think First have a chance here but wonder ie industrial problems pre A to B will affect it?

Personally I'd say scrapping the WAG Expresses would be bad politically and not set any govenment minoritty or not in a good place. another juggling act here with ATW trying to get the best they can out of mainly BR sprinters and Pacers. Whens there franchise up? And how does it work there, are WAG responsible for it?

I think the WAG were given control of the wales franchise by the former SRA, the franchise is up for re-newal in 2018, I think westminster did say for the WAG and network rail to come up with the business case to wire the valley lines and for new rolling stock.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Stagecoach to win next ScotRail franchise?

think the competition commission would take umbridge there as stagecoach has a finger in the Scottish citylink pie, megabus runs a plenty and a lot of local and regional express bus work

 

[Zoe]

Why not have a separate Strathclyde franchise? The Glasgow suburban network is quite different to the rest of Scotland.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I think the WAG were given control of the wales franchise by the former SRA, the franchise is up for re-newal in 2018, I think westminster did say for the WAG and network rail to come up with the business case to wire the valley lines and for new rolling stock.

So a big election issue next time round then will be the many challenges faced by aging stock and rising numbers of punters. Valley lines I think wil go through ok although think its more likely Bombardier are handed a contract for new suburban EMU's for London and the south and all 315s are hauled off to Crewe or Doncaster for rebuilding and then put to work services from Cardif. Or if Mursy rail stock replacement happens first 307s/308s will be considdered perhaps?


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Why not have a separate Strathclyde franchise? The Glasgow suburban network is quite different to the rest of Scotland.

nice idea but wil never happen i wouldnt think.

 

[anthony263]

Prsonally i think maybe the crossrail order should be increased to provide emu's for the electric services around Reading & Oxford and maybe get northern to purchase some brand new EMU's so that the class 319's can be displaced to operate on the valley lines network

 

[Blindtraveler]

Prsonally i think maybe the crossrail order should be increased to provide emu's for the electric services around Reading & Oxford and maybe get northern to purchase some brand new EMU's so that the class 319's can be displaced to operate on the valley lines network

agreed

 

[radamfi]

Why not have a separate Strathclyde franchise? The Glasgow suburban network is quite different to the rest of Scotland.

Arguably they are actually moving in the opposite direction, given that responsibility for trains in Strathclyde was stripped from SPT and given to Transport Scotland.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I think the ValleyLines should get new stock (I was thinking a uniform fleet of 3-car 377s, but perhaps you'd want 4-car or 5-car trains in some cases, so perhaps a mix of 3-car and 2-car 377s) as it's going to need a hell of a lot of stock (I include Swanline, Cardiff - Cheltenham stoppers, Vale Of Glamorgan, Ebbw Vale and Maesteg under ValleyLines network by the way). That will leave any cascaded stock available to help make the case for other electrifications (inc. Wrexham Central Mersyrail connection), I think south-east Wales still has the money between now and 2020 to get wires for the ValleyLines network and new stock (£600m for a few miles of extra lane for the Heads Of The Valleys road), I doubt any other areas have the amount of cash inbound needed to buy new stock and wires.

Are there any indications of who is going to be WAG's transport minister for the next term? I guess it is probablly a bit early to be asking that...

 

[Invincibles]

Can not see Newport - Cheltenham getting wires, so presumably that will not count as a "valley line" in the business case.

However, if they did find a case for electifying that section then suddenly continuing to Birmingham makes sense, then Gloucester to Bristol Parkway. Suddenly Manchester - Bristol can become electric. (Presumably it would stop there with Nottingham - Cardiff potentially splitting at Birmingham)

In reality I think if Maesteg gets wires trains would not continue beyond Cardiff/Newport.

 

[rail-britain]

Electrification may get scrapped as the country is skint as they say

Electrification is included in the SNP manifesto, and I have relative within the SNP and have confirmed that electrification will not be affected
There are no plans for any other new projects and existing projects will not be affected

 

[merlodlliw]

Are there any indications of who is going to be WAG's transport minister for the next term? I guess it is probablly a bit early to be asking that...[/QUOTE]

hopefully someone with rail knowledge this time, but it wont be "Fly me to Mona"

 

[rail-britain]

What were the SNP's policies for a new Forth bridge? Was it to have a railway line in the middle? Or am I getting confused

The Forth Road Bridge proposal (known as the FRC) is simply a replacement for the existing Forth Road Bridge, there will be no railway line included (this was an error in reading the tender document by an American contractor)

The tender was awarded about 6 weeks to FCBC, work due to commence next month for completion around 2016 (just as the final stages of EGIP electrification are completed)

The main difference with the road bridge will be a Motorway standard carriageway
However, the monies announced do not include the costs of the removal and disposal of the current road bridge
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Stagecoach to win next ScotRail franchise?

That is if Stagecoach exist in 2014
As a shareholder I am already aware that DB are in discussion to purchase Stagecoach
This may also has issues for Virgin Rail Group (current West Coast Trains bid)
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Arguably they are actually moving in the opposite direction, given that responsibility for trains in Strathclyde was stripped from SPT and given to Transport Scotland.

Agreed, and the way things are going Network Rail (Scotland) may be vertically integrated into ScotRail
This may even be in place for the next franchise
Almost brings us back to the old BRB Scotland of the 1980s, which brought us ScotRail all those years ago; is someone retro tripping?!?

With regards to the RPTs (such as SPT), they now have less input into rail schemes and simply put proposals forward but they seem to just be ignored
An example of this was the Highland Main Line proposal which I was involved in during 2008/2009, such that this scheme should be in place for the timetable due to commence May 2011
cough, the way I see it, any SNP scheme although innovative and socially necessary has been plagued by delays