How useful are pull-down tables on inner-suburban commuter trains?

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I was having an interesting discussion with another forum member - who I won't name, I'll leave it up to him if he wants to pipe up in this thread - about the 701s.

I am a fan of them compared to what they replace. I like homogeneous fleets, particularly when they're new, modern, and replace aging, somewhat mishmash fleets short of many useful amenities for a 21st century passenger.

However, one thing I wish they did have, was pull down tables. Completely in contrast to the 450, they have little tables at bays yet lack any sort of pull downs in the many airline seats.

And the other forum member seemed to think it ridiculous that I thought they should have these, because "they work commuter services."

I replied that it's still useful to have somewhere to put a morning coffee down, or even get some emails done if coming from the further parts of the inner-suburban network - to which he replied, "Yes, but how many people want to do that, really?"

So I wondered - how useful ARE pull-down tables on commuter trains? Surely there has to be some demand, else GTR wouldn't have fitted a fair few of 700s with them several years after their introduction.

 

[AM9]

I was having an interesting discussion with another forum member - who I won't name, I'll leave it up to him if he wants to pipe up in this thread - about the 701s.

I am a fan of them compared to what they replace. I like homogeneous fleets, particularly when they're new, modern, and replace aging, somewhat mishmash fleets short of many useful amenities for a 21st century passenger.

However, one thing I wish they did have, was pull down tables. Completely in contrast to the 450, they have little tables at bays yet lack any sort of pull downs in the many airline seats.

And the other forum member seemed to think it ridiculous that I thought they should have these, because "they work commuter services."

I replied that it's still useful to have somewhere to put a morning coffee down, or even get some emails done if coming from the further parts of the inner-suburban network - to which he replied, "Yes, but how many people want to do that, really?"

So I wondered - how useful ARE pull-down tables on commuter trains? Surely there has to be some demand, else GTR wouldn't have fitted a fair few of 700s with them several years after their introduction.

I would suggest that GTR only fitted them to silence a complaint (I think from a local MP/councillor). Once a token few were fitted the clamour about them stopped.

 

[birchesgreen]

From my commuting days the tables were often used. Though not sure what "commuting" has to do with it, some commutes can be pretty long journeys!

 

[alistairlees]

They are extremely useful. Do people think commuters don’t have cups of coffee or other drinks, or want to watch videos on phones, or use laptops or something?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They are extremely useful. Do people think commuters don’t have cups of coffee or other drinks, or want to watch videos on phones, or use laptops or something?

Well these were exactly the points I made, but it was suggested back to me that that wasn't a majority.
I'm asking this out of genuine curiosity, not to prove a point, because I grew up on the Alton line, which is a little further out than most 701-served stations, so my own peak-hour experiences on those 450s may not have been reflective of a true inner-suburban commute.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I think they’re useful. But then what provisions should be given for those in bay seating? How useful is the old window side table, completely useless to the other 4 passengers in a 3+3 bay? How useful is a full table on a Victoria to West Croydon evening service?

 

[renegademaster]

Other than the cost of fitting them (which must be pretty tiny proportion of the total cost), what downside do they have? I can't think of any even if they don't actually get used

 

[Russel]

I replied that it's still useful to have somewhere to put a morning coffee down, or even get some emails done if coming from the further parts of the inner-suburban network - to which he replied, "Yes, but how many people want to do that, really?"

The fact that most commuter stations have some kind of coffee shop would suggest that a large portion of commuters buy a hot drink on their daily commute, which kind of makes this a redundant question.

Not fitting seat back tables is just DFT/TOC penny pinching, nothing more complex than that.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

Other than the cost of fitting them (which must be pretty tiny proportion of the total cost), what downside do they have? I can't think of any even if they don't actually get used

There will be - or at least, there should be - the cost of cleaning them, and occasionally the cost of replacing a broken one. Possibly offset by some reduction in carpet-cleaning costs; if the only place to put a cup of coffee while taking one's coat off is on the floor, it's inevitable that one will occasionally get kicked

 

[Russel]

There will be - or at least, there should be - the cost of cleaning them, and occasionally the cost of replacing a broken one. Possibly offset by some reduction in carpet-cleaning costs; if the only place to put a cup of coffee while taking one's coat off is on the floor, it's inevitable that one will occasionally get kicked

These are pretty negligible costs though looking at the bigger picture.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Coffee shelves are quite useful on that sort of train. The small but solid ones on the 730/0s are quite good. A full size table is probably overkill.

 

[Recessio]

I find they're completely useless for laptops (never large enough to actually rest one safely on), but very useful for resting coffees, phones, gloves etc. I do wish more trains had them.

 

[renegademaster]

There will be - or at least, there should be - the cost of cleaning them, and occasionally the cost of replacing a broken one. Possibly offset by some reduction in carpet-cleaning costs; if the only place to put a cup of coffee while taking one's coat off is on the floor, it's inevitable that one will occasionally get kicked

The tables on Thameslink trains seem to be fine. In stark contrast to the lovecraftian horrors that are the toilets

 

[andy33gmail]

Other than the cost of fitting them (which must be pretty tiny proportion of the total cost), what downside do they have? I can't think of any even if they don't actually get used

When they go floppy & you can’t make them stay up

 

[Mattplans]

Whipped out my laptop on a Southeastern train - one of those Networkers that used to have First Class areas - and this had a pull down table. It was suprisingly helpful and I was actually quite productive in this time. I imagine it's similarly useful on the 700s that have it (only some have them, I've noticed)


Ultimately, it really does depends on how long the average journey time is.

 

[yorksrob]

Very useful - for a coffee on the way in, or a Maccy D's on the way back after a night out.

 

[Jan Mayen]

I like to have a table of any sort when travelling, even short surburban ones.

 

[Falcon1200]

Every single type of train should have tables, pull-down on airline type seats and, at the very least, small tables at the bays of four.

 

[43096]

I was having an interesting discussion with another forum member - who I won't name, I'll leave it up to him if he wants to pipe up in this thread - about the 701s.

I am a fan of them compared to what they replace. I like homogeneous fleets, particularly when they're new, modern, and replace aging, somewhat mishmash fleets short of many useful amenities for a 21st century passenger.

However, one thing I wish they did have, was pull down tables. Completely in contrast to the 450, they have little tables at bays yet lack any sort of pull downs in the many airline seats.

And the other forum member seemed to think it ridiculous that I thought they should have these, because "they work commuter services."

I replied that it's still useful to have somewhere to put a morning coffee down, or even get some emails done if coming from the further parts of the inner-suburban network - to which he replied, "Yes, but how many people want to do that, really?"

So I wondered - how useful ARE pull-down tables on commuter trains? Surely there has to be some demand, else GTR wouldn't have fitted a fair few of 700s with them several years after their introduction.

I completely agree. The 701s are not just a like-for-like for the 455s, but they also do longer distance workings (in terms of time) such as Reading. They are very much a dumbing down of that service.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Every single type of train should have tables, pull-down on airline type seats and, at the very least, small tables at the bays of four.

As an aside; 350/2s had facing seats without tables and the rest of the 350s , with them. On the 350/2s the anti-social habit of resting feet (with dirty soles) on the cushion opposite was very common indeed. It's much rarer for passengers to twist around to do so with tables.

 

[Andy1978]

Northern 195s appear to have these, I think some of the services they run are pretty lengthy?

 

[quartile]

on the 450s what I don't like is how dirty they generally seem. I don't find visible dirt on the rest of the seats

 

[Fincra5]

Very Useful! Count the amount of commuters, and general off-peak passengers who use the Table for; Tea, Coffee, Food, Booze, Books, iPads, Laptops, Phones etc! Daft not having them this day and age. The 700s not having them was a terrible idea, I'm glad the change happened.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Yes, while I don't use them much on my commute, on longer journeys it's very useful to have somewhere to put Traksy on while I plan/read the forums on my main phone.

 

[martin2345uk]

When they go floppy & you can’t make them stay up

That is a good point though, some designs seem prone to this (class 395!).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

As an aside; 350/2s had facing seats without tables and the rest of the 350s , with them. On the 350/2s the anti-social habit of resting feet (with dirty soles) on the cushion opposite was very common indeed. It's much rarer for passengers to twist around to do so with tables.

A lot of it comes down to shifting weight around; people tend to rest their feet on the opposite seat to attempt to gain a more comfortable position while sat very upright with no armrests. At a table seat you can lean on the table or rest the elbows on it, shifting weight onto the table and maintaining a more comfortable position, without needing to shift some weight to the feet to take it all off the back and shoulders.

There are of course, armrests on the other 350s too, and these help greatly with maintaining a more comfortable posture.

 

[NSE]

The problem I have with 700’s, is they are so cramped, my laptop doesn’t fit and the screen has to be tilted down, so I can’t use it for work. It’s fine for drinks/snacks. I think they all should have them. I don’t use them all the time, but it’s pennies compared to say, deciding to fit toilets or not. That said, I don’t have a problem with them not being on metro LO style operations.

I’m a big fan of tables on trains in general and much prefer sitting there on long distance as I shuffle around a lot and prefer to be able sit forward, which I can do with a table.

 

[Merle Haggard]

There are of course, armrests on the other 350s too, and these help greatly with maintaining a more comfortable posture.

Indeed; but why is it that the armrest is for the sole use of the passenger next to me, never me? Don't have the nerve to make it an issue...
First Class in the 350/4s had two armrests between the twin seats. .