how to move fruit van

[sir jack trolley]

Can any one help me with ideas on transport of fruit van on chassis from Inverness yard to Dornoch. Crane would be needed and lorry to transport

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Don't think I fully understand the job . . . do you have the van already? Is it at Inverness rail depot? Is it a road vehicle or rail waggon? What kind of van is it, size, weight, fittings for lifting? Is it not mobile? Is it too big for a truck fitted with a Hyab or for a recovery vehicle?
Is there access by road to the 2 locations at Inverness and Dornoch?
Might be able to advise with some more info.

There are several road transport companies working out of the docks in Inverness whose daily business is hoisting and transporting containers and other heavy cargo so if you could call in there you're sure to get knowledgeable advice.

 

[sir jack trolley]

thanks for that, It's a 1950's rail wagon on its wheels next to the cement works on a dead siding and I cant get a vehicle closer than 25 feet to it. I'm not allowed to drive a lorry on to the railway (EWS) and cannot fly shunt it as it's sitting next to a Gresley coach and another. I'm trying to rescue it and probably the carriage at a later date but with little or no money starting on the smallest first. on its wheels it's twelve feet high and wondered how to go about choosing a lorry, or do I cut the body up (pretty poor,and I have got another at home). hope that's enough info' for you
regards
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
will call in at the docks next time I'm in inverness and enquire
thank you so much
regards

 

[Old Timer]

thanks for that, It's a 1950's rail wagon on its wheels next to the cement works on a dead siding and I cant get a vehicle closer than 25 feet to it. ....

That is going to be a biggish crane then because 25 feet is a high radius lift.

You can forget a HIAB.

Please do not under estimate the potential difficulties with the crane, it's not as simple as just getting a crane in. It's a lot mor einvolved than just that.

You will need a minimum of two lifting points, probably just inside the axle boxes and a speader bar to attach the lifting straps to. Your lift is likely to be in the order of 10 tonnes and will need the crane's outriggers in place. You will almost certainly need to do a ground stability investigation as well.

The probable radius is going to be about 25 to 30 feet with the outriggers in place judging by the information you have given, you are looking at probably a 70 to 100 tonne road crane.

The other thing is you will need a crane lifting plan, properly prepared and authorised. One final word of advice is DO NOT get a Contract Lift. Once the wagon is off the ground that is your lift used up. Any additional lift is a new lift. You will need a short term Contract Hire, with crane supervisor and banksman.

Any overhead power lines nearby or height restrictions ? as these will dramatically increase the size of crane.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Agree with O T on all counts.

There's a crane hire firm in the docks who will be able to provide a truck-mounted crane and operator, called LES, I think. However, you will have to provide the lifting plan, method statement, risk assessment and insurance, though they may be able to advise you if necc.
You should also notify the owner (NR?) and user of the land (EWS?) of your plans.

And the same all over again at Dornoch (maybe easier to pay them to come along to do the drop off as well? Tho I can see this becoming a 2 day job)
If I'm not mistaken, there will be no special safety certification required for the transport, as it is private carriage, and not as a freight operator. If you (or friend) have a licence to drive the weight of vehicle required, then you can hire a flatbed truck or trailer & tractor, and you're away! But yes, check the height clearance of the entire route and any special permissions required for high vehicles over the bridges (I'm not aware of any, but worth checking).

Its the planning and paperwork that's going to make it a big task! Good luck!

 

[Old Timer]

I think you will find he will need a low loader because of height restrictions, which will require a HGV class 1.

I cannot remember how high a fruit van is but I would suggest around 12 feet above rail level (ARL) which will definitely rule out a normal lorry.

The other thing is that he will not be able to produce the Method Statement, and definitely the Lifting Plan because he will almost certainly not have been trained and suitably qualified. In addition these documents must be reviewed independently.

I doubt that the local harbour crane firm would do an "on the side" lift, indeed they would be rather foolish to do so in my opinion.

Whatever happens, there will be two lifts, one on and one off, so even if he did manange to get someone to do a lift at origin on the QT, there is still the need to deal with the lift at destination, which again will require a Lift Plan, ground investigation, etc.

Sorry to appear to be pendatic but lifting is a very high risk, highly specialist job, which even the experts get wrong occasionally, remember the crane that fell over the Piccadilly lines at Northfileds ?

I have done many, many lifts of all sorts of from signal gantries through OHL structures to bridge beams, track panels, and rail vehicles and I know that balthough these things appear simple at the outset, like anything specialist, the devil is in the detail. Get it wrong and you've got a crane on its side and a HSE Prosecution notice in the post.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Noted.

I hope I hadn't appeared to suggest that the crane hire firm in Inv. docks would do a job without due regard for all necessary procedures.
Rather, I was suggesting that someone there is likely to be able to give more appropriate advice than us, in terms of safety provisions, legal duties and responsibilities, local & and practical considerations and in locating local professional experts. No, they wouldn't do the paperwork, and I hope I made that clear, but its a small city - they are sure to know who would be able to help. I would still advise the OP to speak directly with them.
(Yes, the appropriate HGV licence for the class of vehicle required is exactly what I was trying to refer to - but I'm not persuaded from the info available that a low loader, and therefore an articulated trailer + tractor, is neccessary in terms of vehicle capability and loading, but there may be additional restrictions on any of the 3 bridge crossings).

 

[Old Timer]

The point I was trying to make is that there are going to be two lifts and whilst the Crane people in the Harbour may be happy to do the loading lift, exactly the same planning documentation will be necessary for the second (offloading) lift.

I suggested the best option as being a Contract Hire, because this will incur a minimum hire period, during which time he can do as many lifts as he needs or wants.

Insofar as Lifting Plans are concerned, there will need to be an assessment of the ground conditions and potentially a ground bearing survey. With a Contract Hire, these can be procured from the crane hire Company as part of the package including Crane Supervisor and any slingers/banksment that it is determined will be required.

As far as the low loader is concerned this is purely down to height restrictions, as the majority of UK bridges are in the 16 feet range, and the van loaded onto a standard flatback lorry will definitely exceed this. The height will be increased as well because flatback platforms are not designed to take the sort of point loading that will be introduced by the wheel flanges, so I would expect the wheel treads to be placed on sleepers.

As for licenses, above 7.5 tonnes GVT the normal driving license is not valid.

 

[sir jack trolley]

thank you one and all for the brilliant advice, I will let the forum know the results of my endeavours.
kind regards to all who replied