how to find datetime train p-coded or cancelled？

[allotments]

Is p-code / cancellation date time publicly available?

For example today's 1A68 1732 Chester to London Euston.

NationalRail app is showing cancelled due to shortage of train crew while Realtimetrains currently shows it's running.

I'd like to know whether the train was cancelled before or after 22:00 last night as this affects planning my journey considering delay repay.

It would be really useful to have a method.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Is p-code / cancellation date time publicly available?

For example today's 1A68 1732 Chester to London Euston.

NationalRail app is showing cancelled due to shortage of train crew while Realtimetrains currently shows it's running.

I'd like to know whether the train was cancelled before or after 22:00 last night as this affects planning my journey considering delay repay.

It would be really useful to have a method.

It is running, but only from Crewe. Can you take the half an hour earlier Wales shuttle to Crewe and pick it up there? You might get a bit of compensation for the inconvenience of having had to leave Chester early, but nothing guaranteed. It was cancelled at 22:00 last night.

 

[allotments]

@Jamesrob637 Thanks for that. What's the source for your data?

I'll travel earlier from Llandudno then take my chances with the 5 minute connection at Chester for the Crewe shuttle.

 

[Jamesrob637]

@Jamesrob637 Thanks for that. What's the source for your data?

I'll travel earlier from Llandudno then take my chances with the 5 minute connection at Chester for the Crewe shuttle.

Hi, I just use Avanti Journey Check https://www.journeycheck.com/avantiwestcoast/

 

[allotments]

I just use Avanti Journey Check

I can't see the cancellation time on Journey Check. Have I missed something?

 

[Jamesrob637]

I can't see the cancellation time on Journey Check. Have I missed something?

You have to look under "Other Train Service Updates" and there you will find your 17:32 Chester to Euston. It won't show as Cancelled if it's still running part-way.

 

[allotments]

You have to look under "Other Train Service Updates"

Thanks - I can now see “24/11/23 17:32 Chester to London Euston due 19:35 will be started from Crewe...

Last Updated: 23/11/2023 20:58"

From which perhaps we can infer that cancellation occurred before 22:00 last night.

I wonder if there is a reliable method for finding cancellation datetime in a database field that can be queried using unique train identifier, station stop and date.

How do delay repay teams obtain this data?

Depending on a human to type something into Journey Check and then having to infer something doesn't seem robust.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I think delay repay teams have a back office system, similar to the "GDS" that travel agencies use.

 

[skyhigh]

.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

There is a clear need for public visibility of cancellation time or for the Published Timetable of the Day (PToD) actually be published (ie made publicly available in a permnanent form). National Rail consider that is adequate to tell passengers to access the NR Journey Planner at precisely 2200 the night before.

I wrote to Transport Focus about this in April 2022 and was promised by Anthony Smith that they they recognised the issue, but nothing seems to have happened.

 

[allotments]

There is a clear need for public visibility of cancellation time or for the Published Timetable of the Day (PToD) actually be published (ie made publicly available in a permnanent form). National Rail consider that is adequate to tell passengers to access the NR Journey Planner at precisely 2200 the night before.

I wrote to Transport Focus about this in April 2022 and was promised by Anthony Smith that they they recognised the issue, but nothing seems to have happened.

Absolutely!

Not only is it unreasonable to expect passengers to check planned itinerary against published data at precisely 22:00 day before travel but many passengers who already have open tickets decide an itinerary later than that.

I also want to refer to the PToD retrospectively so that I can calculate any delay repay that I am entitled to - and I won't claim if there is no entitlement. Without PToD reference data there is no robust method for the passenger to cross
check in the face of very frequent blunders from delay repay teams using software that is not fit for purpose for more complex journeys.

 

[RAPC]

I use the advanced function on realtimetrains to search for this. If it was cancelled the day before, the service will show as cancelled if you select the ‘CAN’ option as part of your search.

Otherwise, if you don’t select that option you just get the working timetable of the day for passenger calls.

 

[Gaelan]

It'd be possible to determine from Peter Mount's Darwin archive: https://archive.area51.dev/archive/ukrail/darwin/

In this case, the first message showing that train as cancelled bears the timestamp 2023-11-23 20:58:44.9539109 - so yes, p-coded unfortunately.

Unfortunately not a method that works without a fair bit of technical knowledge!

 

[43096]

I wrote to Transport Focus about this in April 2022 and was promised by Anthony Smith that they they recognised the issue, but nothing seems to have happened.

Of course nothing happened. Transport Focus is funded by DfT, so it’s not going to rock the boat. An utterly useless, pointless and ineffective organisatio.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

Of course nothing happened. Transport Focus is funded by DfT, so it’s not going to rock the boat. An utterly useless, pointless and ineffective organisatio.

Useless and ineffective - Yes.
Pointless - No.

Bodies like Transport Focus, Ofwat, Ofcom etc are there to provide the illusion that the consumer has a powerful advocate clipping the wings of avaricious commercial companies to whom society has handed monopolies or quasi-monopolies. If they didn't exist, there would be pressure to set us some effective oversight. By existing, they fill the space that a proper regulator/advocate should fill.

 

[43096]

Useless and ineffective - Yes.
Pointless - No.

Bodies like Transport Focus, Ofwat, Ofcom etc are there to provide the illusion that the consumer has a powerful advocate clipping the wings of avaricious commercial companies to whom society has handed monopolies or quasi-monopolies. If they didn't exist, there would be pressure to set us some effective oversight. By existing, they fill the space that a proper regulator/advocate should fill.

So from the point of view of the consumer they are pointless. I’ll accept that they are a useful deflection mechanism for government.

 

[allotments]

I use the advanced function on realtimetrains to search for this. If it was cancelled the day before, the service will show as cancelled if you select the ‘CAN’ option as part of your search.

Otherwise, if you don’t select that option you just get the working timetable of the day for passenger calls.

I'm not sure if that would always be a reliable method

As I reported in original post, screenshot taken of realtimetrains data at 09:42 on 23/11/2023 shows 1A68 running from Chester while screenshot National Rail app 09:58 showed cancelled until Crewe.

It looks like an update hadn't arrived in the realtimetrains data until later.