How should Network Rail go about returning personal items after the Lewes incident?

[Kevin51]

Seaford student faces wait for belongings after Lewes train derailment

Alvin Dybvik Payne was visiting Seaford from Norway when the train he was on derailed at Lewes.

www.bbc.co.uk

People have not been able to get their personal possessions as Network Rail say it is unsafe. One guy can't get his house keys or his passport so can't travel back to Norway. The photo shows people standing on the side of the coach which seems equally unsafe. Presumably waiting to be rescued. If it is unsafe to enter the train to retrieve essential personal possessions wouldn't the evacuation, whilst necessary, have been unsafe? Note to self. If you are ever in a derailment try to keep hold of your house keys and wallet or you will be on the streets until Network Rail get their act together.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Seaford student faces wait for belongings after Lewes train derailment

Alvin Dybvik Payne was visiting Seaford from Norway when the train he was on derailed at Lewes.

www.bbc.co.uk

People have not been able to get their personal possessions as Network Rail say it is unsafe. One guy can't get his house keys or his passport so can't travel back to Norway. The photo shows people standing on the side of the coach which seems equally unsafe. Presumably waiting to be rescued. If it is unsafe to enter the train to retrieve essential personal possessions wouldn't the evacuation, whilst necessary, have been unsafe? Note to self. If you are ever in a derailment try to keep hold of your house keys and wallet or you will be on the streets until Network Rail get their act together.

Keys in trouser pocket. Wallet in shirt pocket. Backups to both in bag. Backups to the Backups hidden elsewhere. Have I done something sensible for once in my life?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

A valuable lesson to be learnt here by this student. Moaning to the media isn't going to help

 

[Haywain]

Seaford student faces wait for belongings after Lewes train derailment

Alvin Dybvik Payne was visiting Seaford from Norway when the train he was on derailed at Lewes.

www.bbc.co.uk

People have not been able to get their personal possessions as Network Rail say it is unsafe. One guy can't get his house keys or his passport so can't travel back to Norway. The photo shows people standing on the side of the coach which seems equally unsafe. Presumably waiting to be rescued. If it is unsafe to enter the train to retrieve essential personal possessions wouldn't the evacuation, whilst necessary, have been unsafe? Note to self. If you are ever in a derailment try to keep hold of your house keys and wallet or you will be on the streets until Network Rail get their act together.

See my comments above (posts #254 and 256).

Keys in trouser pocket. Wallet in shirt pocket. Backups to both in bag. Backups to the Backups hidden elsewhere. Have I done something sensible for once in my life?

Have appropriate insurance in place to cover all eventualities.

 

[Snow1964]

People just find anything to moan about, encouraged by the media. Evacuate means just that, don’t worry about stuff that can be replaced because lives can’t be.

I think the point is why is no attempt being made to recover and return items whilst not much is happening awaiting cranes.

Not initial evacuation, but it is same problems airlines have, if things are difficult to replace quickly, then indirectly encouraging people not to leave things behind.

Ask yourself how quickly could you replace your passport and keys without involving more of your own time, or if you were waiting to be paid so you could afford to.

 

[Towers]

A valuable lesson to be learnt here by this student. Moaning to the media isn't going to help

In fact, highlighting it may very well be a help if it’s just something that’s been subconsciously shoved to the back of the queue. Of course if it’s genuinely unsafe to send anybody into the overturned carriages then clearly it won’t be happening just yet, but equally it would be easy to appreciate how retrieval of belongings could be deemed a non-priority in the flurry of activity required here, when it may be entirely possible to start that process.

 

[Haywain]

I think the point is why is no attempt being made to recover and return items whilst not much is happening awaiting cranes.

It's in the article you linked to:

British Transport Police (BTP) said carriages were not yet safe to access, while Southern and Network Rail said they were "making every effort to reunite passengers with their belongings".

And:

A Network Rail spokesperson said on Sunday that the railway line would be closed for at least 10 more days.

The back three carriages remain on their sides on the embankment where it is "simply not safe to enter", Southern and Network Rail said.

They added: "As soon as it is possible to gain access, through the recovery work, we will do our utmost to reunite the owners with their belongings as a priority."

Ask yourself how quickly could you replace your passport and keys without involving more of your own time, or if you were waiting to be paid so you could afford to.

I have insurance for things like that. Time is whatever it happens to take.

 

[Kevin51]

I think the point is why is no attempt being made to recover and return items whilst not much is happening awaiting cranes.

Not initial evacuation, but it is same problems airlines have, if things are difficult to replace quickly, then indirectly encouraging people not to leave things behind.

Ask yourself how quickly could you replace your passport and keys without involving more of your own time, or if you were waiting to be paid so you could afford to.

I think an airline evacuation is slightly different with fire risk being the biggest danger so the urgency of getting out. And I think the airline will take a responsible attitude in caring for passengers. This guy seems to have been left to his own devices. I suppose another reason to have one of those key lock safes by your front door with a spare set of keys in it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2026 ==

Keys in trouser pocket. Wallet in shirt pocket. Backups to both in bag. Backups to the Backups hidden elsewhere. Have I done something sensible for once in my life?

You forgot the passport.

 

[Haywain]

I suppose another reason to have one of those key lock safes by your front door with a spare set of keys in it.

Or just have insurance.

This guy seems to have been left to his own devices.

Nonsense - he's staying at his parents house, a safe place. And he acknowledges in the BBC piece that he could get back to Norway with an emergency passport.

 

[The exile]

Seaford student faces wait for belongings after Lewes train derailment

Alvin Dybvik Payne was visiting Seaford from Norway when the train he was on derailed at Lewes.

www.bbc.co.uk

People have not been able to get their personal possessions as Network Rail say it is unsafe. One guy can't get his house keys or his passport so can't travel back to Norway. The photo shows people standing on the side of the coach which seems equally unsafe. Presumably waiting to be rescued. If it is unsafe to enter the train to retrieve essential personal possessions wouldn't the evacuation, whilst necessary, have been unsafe? Note to self. If you are ever in a derailment try to keep hold of your house keys and wallet or you will be on the streets until Network Rail get their act together.

An evacuation is likely by definition to be unsafe (in absolute terms) because you don’t need to evacuate from a safe situation.

 

[ainsworth74]

I must confess if the vehicles are so unsafe that absolutely no-one, not even appropriately trained/experienced staff can enter them, I'm surprised they're not being cut up on site rather than being moved. Or perhaps it's just a case of no-one is willing to sign off on the relevant risk assessment and the vehicles would be perfectly safe for appropriate people to enter to retrieve small items?

Stuff like this of course feeds into people not leaving bags behind on the rare occasion that emergency evacuations are required (in any context, rail, airline, or elsewhere) because you have no guarantee that you will actually be reunited with your belongings in a reasonable time period. If people actually had some confidence that their belongings would be provided within a day or two (or even quicker depending on context) they'd be more inclined to leave them behind.

However I'm sure whatever risk assessment has been carried out to determine that these vehicles are utterly unsafe to enter (but somehow safe to be involved in a complex recovery effort and transit by road) will ensure that all backs are suitably covered.

I suppose another reason to have one of those key lock safes by your front door with a spare set of keys in it.

Though those are notoriously easy to bypass/pick so I would strongly advise either against it full stop or at least having mounted somewhere inconspicuous.

(Two videos showing a YouTuber known as the "lock picking lawyer" picking two key safes in a matter of seconds.)

 

[AlterEgo]

It's probably the fact the carriages are on their side on an embankment that's the issue. It might not be possible to safely enter and root about without risking the carriage sliding further down the embankment. Just a thought.

 

[150249]

It's probably the fact the carriages are on their side on an embankment that's the issue. It might not be possible to safely enter and root about without risking the carriage sliding further down the embankment. Just a thought.

What is stopping the relevant companies from making reinforcements to keep the carriages in place? Is it an environmental issue or is it just not cost effective?

 

[edwin_m]

What is stopping the relevant companies from making reinforcements to keep the carriages in place? Is it an environmental issue or is it just not cost effective?

If the coaches are at risk of slipping then anyone trying to shore them up may also be in an unsafe situation.

 

[dastocks]

I try to operate a hierarchical approach with my belongings when travelling:
- Wallet, keys, passport and/or ID are in pockets or on a chain attached to a belt.
- Other more valuable or essential items (e.g. notepad, tablet, medication, water) are in a bag that is kept with me. I would try to evacuate with this if it was from a train with no immediate danger like a fire.
- Anything else is in a suitcase (if it's that kind of journey) and that would be left to its fate.

 

[The exile]

I try to operate a hierarchical approach with my belongings when travelling:
- Wallet, keys, passport and/or ID are in pockets or on a chain attached to a belt.
- Other more valuable or essential items (e.g. notepad, tablet, medication, water) are in a bag that is kept with me. I would try to evacuate with this if it was from a train with no immediate danger like a fire.
- Anything else is in a suitcase (if it's that kind of journey) and that would be left to its fate.

Exactly - it’s not exactly rocket-science (though the number of times at work I realise that my keys are in the desk-drawer lock, so if there’s a real fire I’m up the creek)

 

[Beebman]

Anything else is in a suitcase (if it's that kind of journey) and that would be left to its fate.

I keep an piece of paper with my name and address on in my suitcase just in case I get separated from it.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Maybe it's me but I was brought up always to plan for uneventialities. Keys, passports and laptops can be replaced. Data should always be backed up in the event of a laptop being lost or stolen. To the OP: why weren't your keys in your pocket? They could be anywhere in the train or lost outside even during the immediate panic and evacuation. Do your keys have any ID attached? How would the railway know who to return them to otherwise?

 

[Haywain]

To the OP: why weren't your keys in your pocket? They could be anywhere in the train or lost outside even during the immediate panic and evacuation. Do your keys have any ID attached? How would the railway know who to return them to otherwise?

The "OP" is a news article on the BBC website, so won't be responding!

 

[Mattplans]

To the OP: why weren't your keys in your pocket? They could be anywhere in the train or lost outside even during the immediate panic and evacuation. Do your keys have any ID attached? How would the railway know who to return them to otherwise?

Do you have ID attached to your keys?

The person in question has done nothing wrong, they're just unfortunate. There's nothing wrong with keeping your keys and your passport in your bag.

 

[Haywain]

The person in question has done nothing wrong, they're just unfortunate. There's nothing wrong with keeping your keys and your passport in your bag.

Absolutely, but it is always best to know how you would deal with not having them whether temporarily or permanently.

 

[williamn]

Also worth remembering this is a local train you’re highly likely to hop onto without a thought for a 15 minute journey. It’s not a long distance trip where you might given a lot of thought into what goes into which bag.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think the idea that we should plan our lives around being involved in a train crash that involves leaving your bags behind is a bit far fetched. It's daft to have all your possessions in one place, certainly not best practice when it comes to most everyday risks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seaford student faces wait for belongings after Lewes train derailment

Alvin Dybvik Payne was visiting Seaford from Norway when the train he was on derailed at Lewes.

www.bbc.co.uk

People have not been able to get their personal possessions as Network Rail say it is unsafe. One guy can't get his house keys or his passport so can't travel back to Norway. The photo shows people standing on the side of the coach which seems equally unsafe. Presumably waiting to be rescued. If it is unsafe to enter the train to retrieve essential personal possessions wouldn't the evacuation, whilst necessary, have been unsafe? Note to self. If you are ever in a derailment try to keep hold of your house keys and wallet or you will be on the streets until Network Rail get their act together.

Never ever have your passport anywhere except a money belt or a zipped or buttoned pocket, ideally inside. This needs drumming into people as it's one of the causes of people going back for bags when evacuating aircraft, which unlike trains tends to need to be done very, very quickly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2026 ==

Also worth remembering this is a local train you’re highly likely to hop onto without a thought for a 15 minute journey. It’s not a long distance trip where you might given a lot of thought into what goes into which bag.

Keys, wallet, phone and earphones in my pockets, two each side. Passport too if travelling (usually in the extra leg pocket of combat trousers/shorts, but if not wearing those it fits behind my wallet easily enough). Never in a bag, it might get stolen while I'm not looking.

OK, not as easy for women as their clothing tends to have fewer pockets, but they can use a money/passport belt when travelling. Replacing passports is fraught with difficulty and cost (and if someone nicks it the identity fraud issues can be massive), so you really should treat it like it's made of solid gold.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2026 ==

The person in question has done nothing wrong, they're just unfortunate. There's nothing wrong with keeping your keys and your passport in your bag.

Yes there is, it's a really, really ill advised thing to do. Your bag could get nicked when you aren't looking.

 

[WesternLancer]

Also worth remembering this is a local train you’re highly likely to hop onto without a thought for a 15 minute journey. It’s not a long distance trip where you might given a lot of thought into what goes into which bag.

exactly - a journey I have done numerous times on that route over the last 50 years without incident and did so a few weeks ago just between Haywards Heath and Lewes.

Whilst I take reasonable precautions in life, I'd be unlikely to go on a full 'disaster could happen at any moment' planning regime for such an eventuality if I am being honest.

I salute those here who say they do, but lets face it - occasionally things happen for which the best laid plans can't cover. A significant train derailment would tend to fit into that criteria.

I assume in due course the railway in some form or other will compensate affected passengers - that's funds you could use for a 24 hour locksmith call out if you have lost your keys - but when I was a relatively skint student in an era before credit cards were available to young people I don't suppose I could have paid up front for that sort of service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Have appropriate insurance in place to cover all eventualities.

Domestic travel insurance of the kind you note basically doesn't exist (though would be relevant to the international passenger noted - but there's still the hassle of getting an emergency passport even if the cost would be covered).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2026 ==

Whilst I take reasonable precautions in life, I'd be unlikely to go on a full 'disaster could happen at any moment' planning regime for such an eventuality if I am being honest.

I salute those here who say they do, but lets face it - occasionally things happen for which the best laid plans can't cover. A significant train derailment would tend to fit into that criteria.

I don't think "keys, wallet, phone and if applicable passport only ever directly on your person" is a "disaster could happen any moment" thing, it's just basic common sense I've practiced pretty much every day of my adult life. OK, on odd occasions my wallet stays at home or goes in the inside pocket of a bag, but it's so unimportant these days anyway, it's just a backup to my phone and it would be easy to cancel all the cards in it and have them replaced within a few minutes provided I have my phone.

If it contains a paper train ticket, only ever in my pocket, but that's rare these days for me.

 

[Haywain]

Domestic travel insurance of the kind you note basically doesn't exist

Appropriate insurance against the loss of house/flat keys isn't travel insurance, it's home insurance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Appropriate insurance against the loss of house/flat keys isn't travel insurance, it's home insurance.

Or you just keep them in your pocket! That way you avoid the hassle.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2026 ==

I assume in due course the railway in some form or other will compensate affected passengers - that's funds you could use for a 24 hour locksmith call out if you have lost your keys - but when I was a relatively skint student in an era before credit cards were available to young people I don't suppose I could have paid up front for that sort of service.

Most students live in shared houses or halls. If it's halls the reception will be able to sort it (they may charge a fee but it won't be hundreds). If a shared house the other residents will, though there may be a need to break into their room but they could kip on the sofa and deal with that the next day.

It's people of more limited means outside of students who may have more of a problem.

 

[Haywain]

Or you just keep them in your pocket! That way you avoid the hassle.

I can understand not keeping them in your pocket when you're away from home, as it's no different to what I do. But always have a contingency plan, such as insurance.

 

[WesternLancer]

Appropriate insurance against the loss of house/flat keys isn't travel insurance, it's home insurance.

Lots of people don't have that though - esp if they are not home owners. OK, that's not a great decision to make - but it is the case