How old should buses be at withdrawal.

[Qwerty133]

How old buses are you happy to see buses in regular public service?

 

[overthewater]

How old buses are you happy to see buses in regular public service?

Buses can be kept running for 20 years IF KEPT in good condition, but alas many fail to do so.

 

[trentside]

Buses can be kept running for 20 years IF KEPT in good condition, but alas many fail to do so.

There's a sad perception amongst some local authorities than an old bus is a bad bus - hence the introduction of vehicle age limits on school contracts etc. I will concede that certain operators don't help perceptions.

 

[freetoview33]

There are some in Bristol that are 10 years old, and have basically just had there seats redone twice. And some are starting to show there age, but with a bit of a referb/good cleaning but could easily make 15 years even without a refresh. So I would say a minimum of 15 (If look after, okay) but up to 20 if taken good care of. Maybe even 25 if they are exceptional.

 

[overthewater]

There are some in Bristol that are 10 years old, and have basically just had there seats redone twice. And some are starting to show there age, but with a bit of a referb/good cleaning but could easily make 15 years even without a refresh. So I would say a minimum of 15 (If look after, okay) but up to 20 if taken good care of. Maybe even 25 if they are exceptional.

Some of the PS B10M on Arran are nearly 20 years old and are still going strong, and the island is no picnic.

 

[Andyh82]

Early ALX400s are now around 15 years old, and I can't see them being scrapped any time soon, so will probably make 20 years, which is probably the limit.

The problem with the ones First have is that they haven't been refurbished at all, so the seats are the faded worn ones that have been in use for 15 years.

Bus designs have slowed down which means older designs don't look old. When First were phasing out 20 year old Atlanteans they looked positively ancient, whereas now an ALX400 still looks modern.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Some of the PS B10M on Arran are nearly 20 years old and are still going strong, and the island is no picnic.

But some of them now are getting replaced by SPT Wright Streetlites effectively ending their 20 odd year career...

 

[Bletchleyite]

How old buses are you happy to see buses in regular public service?

Don't care provided they are in good condition (i.e. both interior and not belching out filthy fumes).

Neil

 

[Robertj21a]

Age is irrelevant, it's the maintenance and general condition that matters.

 

[martinsh]

The older the better - none of this low floor rubbish !

 

[Busaholic]

Age is irrelevant, it's the maintenance and general condition that matters.

Rather like people

 

[bussnapperwm]

The older the better - none of this low floor rubbish !

Hear hear!!

 

[Strathclyder]

Age doesn't matter to me. As long as it's clean, mechanically sound and the interior isn't falling to bits, you won't hear me complaining about a 15 year old bus turning up in lieu of a 2 to 3 year old one.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Age doesn't matter to me either. As long as it is in good nick on the outside and doesn't choke you with diesel fumes then operators can put on what ever they want.

I'll give you an example, Colchri of Renfrew on odd occasions put on a 32 year old ECW Leyland Oly on it's service 22...

 

[theblackwatch]

Age is irrelevant, it's the maintenance and general condition that matters.

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, public perception (caused in part by the general press) seems to be that 'old is rubbish'. Just look at the railways - newspapers give headlines of "40 year old trains....", failing to mention they've had a complete interior rebuild on a number of occasions and are more reliable than modern stuff. (Has any EMU reached the reliability of the Southern Reion Mk.1 slammers?) On the buses, I noticed the other year, the very comfortable double-deckers which are used on the Leeds-Harrogate-Ripon (36) route, but were '53' reg, were given cherished registrations - presuably to disguise how old they really are.

 

[northwichcat]

hence the introduction of vehicle age limits on school contracts etc. I will concede that certain operators don't help perceptions.

Age is irrelevant, it's the maintenance and general condition that matters.

A number of coach operators seem to buy elderly double deckers to use only on school/college contracts. They get a repaint or the operators' logo on the exterior of the bus before entering service but internally they stay as they were when the previous operator withdrew them. Back when I was school I remember travelling on some c.30 year old ex-Crossville buses which had be painted in a Walker Coaches livery but internally had a Crossville interior, including numerous out-of-date adverts.

More recently I've noticed that council owned buses used by operators seem to get a lot more intensively used than operator owned buses. GHA Coaches have a 52 reg council owned Solo which they decided is currently not fit for public service and have plans to return 54 reg council owned Solos, yet they have T, V and X reg Solos which they still plan to keep in service.
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Has any EMU reached the reliability of the Southern Reion Mk.1 slammers?

Having more features (like button operated doors) creates more things which can go wrong.

 

[Busaholic]

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, public perception (caused in part by the general press) seems to be that 'old is rubbish'. Just look at the railways - newspapers give headlines of "40 year old trains....", failing to mention they've had a complete interior rebuild on a number of occasions and are more reliable than modern stuff. (Has any EMU reached the reliability of the Southern Reion Mk.1 slammers?) On the buses, I noticed the other year, the very comfortable double-deckers which are used on the Leeds-Harrogate-Ripon (36) route, but were '53' reg, were given cherished registrations - presuably to disguise how old they really are.

I can be nostalgic about the old slammers too - grew up with them and used them for forty years. But the unfortunate downside were the numerous fatalities and horrific injuries caused at, particularly, London Bridge on the SE side and, to a lesser extent, Clapham Junction as people desperately tried to get on that moving train. I never witnessed one, but have been on trains a couple of times when people have thrown themselves on but were unable to get the door closed before the train picked up speed and that is a frightening experience, especially for the people on seats by the door who could get sucked out. Fortunately, the guard saw what had happened on each occasion and applied the emergency brake. Cue delay, of course, but nothing like it would be now.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wouldn't say that age is irrelevant (components will expire etc) but clearly maintenance (both legal, operational and cosmetic) is essential.

Look at Transdev's B10BLEs - they don't come across as 10-15 years old!

 

[jopsuk]

In recent times there's been a burst of retiring younger buses due to the requirements to go low-floor for accessibility, which has probably warped any statistics somewhat.

 

[mbonwick]

More recently I've noticed that council owned buses used by operators seem to get a lot more intensively used than operator owned buses. GHA Coaches have a 52 reg council owned Solo which they decided is currently not fit for public service and have plans to return 54 reg council owned Solos, yet they have T, V and X reg Solos which they still plan to keep in service.

That's probably down to the arrangement they have with the council - if someone else is paying the bills for keeping the vehicle roadworthy, you want to get the most use out of it.

Equally the returning of newer vehicles is probably down to the councils decision to have their assets back, rather than GHA wanting to offload.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I have a vague recollection of Centro putting out a press release (or similar) a while back to the effect that all buses in the region were going to be no more than 5 years old (or something). Whilst the two largest operators, NXWM and Arriva Midlands do seem to operate new buses in good condition, there's a local operator in Wolverhampton who operate the most frightening, filthy buckets of bolts. So either they're not being held to the same standard or I imagined the whole thing? Anyone have any insight?

 

[Robertj21a]

I have a vague recollection of Centro putting out a press release (or similar) a while back to the effect that all buses in the region were going to be no more than 5 years old (or something). Whilst the two largest operators, NXWM and Arriva Midlands do seem to operate new buses in good condition, there's a local operator in Wolverhampton who operate the most frightening, filthy buckets of bolts. So either they're not being held to the same standard or I imagined the whole thing? Anyone have any insight?

Do you mean Travel Express or Banga Travel ? (mind you, they both operate rather elderly vehicles)

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Both of those! Truth told, I had always assumed they were one and the same!

 

[northwichcat]

Equally the returning of newer vehicles is probably down to the councils decision to have their assets back, rather than GHA wanting to offload.

Last year GHA won some contracts previously operated by D&G Bus where the option of taking on some council owned buses (54 reg Solos) existed. GHA decided to take up that option but only as a short term measure as they plan to acquire their own additional buses this year.

The council who owns the buses is Cheshire East Council and they have been more than happy to sell buses they own to operators if they wish to buy them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have a vague recollection of Centro putting out a press release (or similar) a while back to the effect that all buses in the region were going to be no more than 5 years old (or something). Whilst the two largest operators, NXWM and Arriva Midlands do seem to operate new buses in good condition, there's a local operator in Wolverhampton who operate the most frightening, filthy buckets of bolts. So either they're not being held to the same standard or I imagined the whole thing? Anyone have any insight?

Do they operate contracted services or commercial services? I'm not sure if Centro can force them to comply with regulations if the operator has no contract with Centro.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Just found this:

Amateurish firm ran unsafe buses in Wolverhampton

A bus firm that put passengers on unsafe vehicles with corroded brakes has had its routes withdrawn and been banned from running new services.

Wolverhampton’s Travel Express firm has been banned from running new services after its buses were found to be unsafe and routes changed

Wolverhampton's Travel Express has also been slapped with a £6,500 fine after a damning public inquiry.

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/...urish-firm-ran-unsafe-buses-in-wolverhampton/

Oh, well that's Travel Express dealt with, anyway...


As for Banga Buses, the last thing I can find about them is a news article from years back, again from the Express and Star, saying that they were considering changing their name...

 

[Rich McLean]

20 Years if they have been at least given a mid life refurb and are in good working order

 

[Robertj21a]

Just found this:



http://www.expressandstar.com/news/...urish-firm-ran-unsafe-buses-in-wolverhampton/

Oh, well that's Travel Express dealt with, anyway...


As for Banga Buses, the last thing I can find about them is a news article from years back, again from the Express and Star, saying that they were considering changing their name...

Travel Express has only been cut back, they continue to run.

Banga never changed their name, and also continue to run.

 

[Qwerty133]

I have a vague recollection of Centro putting out a press release (or similar) a while back to the effect that all buses in the region were going to be no more than 5 years old (or something). Whilst the two largest operators, NXWM and Arriva Midlands do seem to operate new buses in good condition, there's a local operator in Wolverhampton who operate the most frightening, filthy buckets of bolts. So either they're not being held to the same standard or I imagined the whole thing? Anyone have any insight?

I have no idea what the other depots are like, but Arriva Midlands do not operate either new buses or buses in good condition near here. Instead they operate 13+ year old buses, that are obviously this old and break down every other day, while still having the same seat covers as when they were brand new, and adverts for Orange predating EE. They are also all covered in old graffiti, have random bits of metal welded to cealings, or over the stopping sign, and have windows which won't stay shut.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Travel Express has only been cut back, they continue to run.

Banga never changed their name, and also continue to run.

Although the other dodgy operator, Heartlands or whatever MR James was going by that week have lost their operating licenses.

 

[radamfi]

Before deregulation, GMPTE had a policy of buying 200 buses a year and withdrawing 200 buses per year, assuming a 12 year life. The buses were withdrawn after 12 years regardless of condition. This kept the fleet size at a steady 2400. This policy meant that there were a lot of spare buses in storage after being withdrawn. These buses ended up being used in competition against GM Buses after deregulation and the vehicles carried on for many more years.

 

[broadgage]

I don't think that age matters, provided that the bus is properly maintained so as to be safe, reliable and at least acceptably comfortable.
A few Routemasters remained in service in London until very recently on route 15, IIRC, nothing wrong with them.

Of course the point will be reached when old vehicles cant be economically maintained because replacement parts are no longer available, that is however a matter of economics rather than the passing of a certain number of years.

Similar arguments apply to trains, I would prefer a decades old HST to most modern DMUs. I dislike the pacers, but not because they are old, they were nasty when new !