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How old are GA's Mk3s?

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EM2

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I know Mk3 coaches were first introduced in 1975, but does anyone know how old the ones currently used by Greater Anglia are?
I'm sure the answer is out there somewhere, just don't know where to look!
 
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David10

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Greater Anglia's Mk3s are a combination of the original loco hauled Mk3As introduced from 1975 on the West Coast, some RFMs converted from HST stock and some Mk3Bs FOs built in the mid 80s for the West Coast Pullman services. The latter can be identified by their IC80 seating and different lighting gantry.
 

Yew

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IC80's? How do those differ from 70's?
 

sprinterguy

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Aren't they what MK4s had originally?
No, the Intercity 80 seats were originally developed and fitted to the APT-P trainsets, and later to the mark 3 “Pullmans” and a number of mark 2s. The seats fitted to the 225s were a completely different breed entirely.
 

F Great Eastern

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NXEA always claimed they did to a full refurbishment to them, but if you or I would call what they did as a refurbishment is open to debate. Minimum possible is how I would describe it, but then again very little was spent on trains during the entire franchise.

The Mid carriage door is gone I think though, most of the lamps don't work, some of the seats don't recline and the lighting is highly variable with many different shades of bulb used.
 

yorksrob

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NXEA always claimed they did to a full refurbishment to them, but if you or I would call what they did as a refurbishment is open to debate. Minimum possible is how I would describe it.

A "facelift" in Southern Region parlance.
 

ainsworth74

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Are you sure? Both use IC70s as far as I'm aware, unless some of GCs LHCS Mk3s had IC80s?
 

sprinterguy

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Are you sure? Both use IC70s as far as I'm aware, unless some of GCs LHCS Mk3s had IC80s?
All of GC’s converted loco hauled stock used mark 3As, which were fitted with IC70 seats. Only the mark 3Bs had IC80s. I’m confident that Grand Central use IC70s in standard class, and EMT definitely do, although I wouldn’t be able to identify the difference in first class seating.
 

Royston Vasey

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I think they are both IC70s with different designs of headrest (extra cushion), slightly different backrest and different hand holds. Don't forget these have been refurbished at least once by the time those photos were taken. The Virgin example shown has the variation now in use in GC's conversions - which were ex-West Coast Mk 3a.

This is an IC80 in a Mk 3b (not my photo).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/smallritual/6692298629
 
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SprinterMan

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I personally love GA's knackered old Mark 3s, they give the impression that the GEML is a high-speed preserved line :P

Adam :D
 

Helvellyn

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No, the Intercity 80 seats were originally developed and fitted to the APT-P trainsets, and later to the mark 3 “Pullmans” and a number of mark 2s. The seats fitted to the 225s were a completely different breed entirely.
The Mk 4 First Class vehicles were fitted with the IC80 seat when built, the same as the Mk 3B "Pullmans" and the prototype refurbished HST sets, although I believe the IC70s were refitted during mainstream refurbishment as InterCity didn't secure the funding to replace the IC70s like it wanted (instead just fitting new seat squabs to the existing seat shells).

The only Mk 2s I know of that got IC80 seating were the 2D and 2F conversions from FOs to TSOs. The 2D vehicles got a low density 2+2 layout with 58 seats, while the 2F vehicles got fitted with a high density layout (mostly airline seating) with 78 seats! The Mk 4 TSOs got a new design seat rather than the IC80, which had armrests that could raise making access easier (especially in the airline seats).
 

JonathanH

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Cambridge line mark 2s used prior to electrification and then transferred to the line out of Paddington also had standard class IC80 seats trimmed in Blue Blaze moquette. I think the frames were taken from the APT.
 

sprinterguy

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The Mk 4 First Class vehicles were fitted with the IC80 seat when built, the same as the Mk 3B "Pullmans" and the prototype refurbished HST sets, although I believe the IC70s were refitted during mainstream refurbishment as InterCity didn't secure the funding to replace the IC70s like it wanted (instead just fitting new seat squabs to the existing seat shells).
Ah ok, I never got to see inside first class on the 225s in their original condition, only second class.
 

ainsworth74

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Hmm a bit different to what they have now! I'm not sure that I'm sold by those glass(?) partitions down the carriage and the colour scheme seems a bit drab. Have to say I think I prefer the Mallard interiors, though I'd like to have seen one in the flesh (well I probably did but will have been to young to remember).
 

sprinterguy

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Hmm a bit different to what they have now! I'm not sure that I'm sold by those glass(?) partitions down the carriage and the colour scheme seems a bit drab. Have to say I think I prefer the Mallard interiors, though I'd like to have seen one in the flesh (well I probably did but will have been to young to remember).
I liked the glass partitions, they were one of my favourite things about the old mark 4 interiors: Gave them more of an "executive" look. The seats left a lot to be desired though, and the seat coverings seemed to have faded and worn out very quickly in GNER days. I think I prefer the "Mallard" interiors too.
 

dk1

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The Mid carriage door is gone I think though, most of the lamps don't work, some of the seats don't recline and the lighting is highly variable with many different shades of bulb used.

Mid carriage door has gone & yes some seats do not recline but table lamps are tested every time on shed & replaces as neccessary.
 

Rick1984

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Why do some 2nd class carriages have full sears at ends and some have space saving seats squashed in?
 

317666

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Why do some 2nd class carriages have full sears at ends and some have space saving seats squashed in?

Some coaches have the same interior layout as they did under InterCity, but others have had the layout changed to a high density layout with fewer tables, to provide extra capacity.
 

yorksrob

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That does bring back a few memories - I'd been struggling to remember what the interiors were like.

To be fair, I don't recall the seating in standard as being either particularly comfortable or uncomfortable, although the upholstery was rather drab. The design looks fairly lightweight - could they have been reused in the Pacers to improve them or would the design have been too wide ?
 

Yew

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Those original MK4's look similar to eurostars inside (ie, grey) Where they conidered fasionable at the time? I think with some colour in the mix they could have been alright, If mallard was done on a bidget. Maybe White walls with chocolate brown seating?
 
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All of GC’s converted loco hauled stock used mark 3As, which were fitted with IC70 seats. Only the mark 3Bs had IC80s. I’m confident that Grand Central use IC70s in standard class, and EMT definitely do, although I wouldn’t be able to identify the difference in first class seating.

All Mark IIIs were fitted from new with InterCity 70 seats except for the Mark IIIBs. These were first class only, and were fitted, as stated earlier, with a revised seat based on the APT design and known as InterCity 80. The IC80 term was only applied to those first class seats in the 3Bs, although further developments of the IC80 were used in the Mark IVs.

The biggest difference was in the seat frame and recline mechanism. The IC70 reclined the seat back rearwards as the seat base was drawn forward to give the recline position. Therefore, when upright, you were not close to the table. The IC80 worked in reverse by drawing the back upright as the seat moved forward - a fair better design. The IC80 seats were also recognisable by the large stainless steel frame to the side and rear of the seat shell. Originally, the seat cushions were also of a very different shape.

When the Virgin refurbishment was undertaken in 1997-1999, Virgin wanted a common look, so the IC80 was given cushions of the same shape and style as the IC70 - and the seat was given the nickname IC75. These are what you now see in the Anglia vehicles first class coaches, all of which are Mark IIIB. The standard class seats and catering vehicle on Anglia are all seated with IC70 (except for the end of vehicle new seats added to increase capacity).

All other original remaining Mark IIIs with EMT and Grand Central contain IC70 seats, although I believe DB or DRS may have a couple of Mark IIIB firsts which may still have the IC75, and the three FOB vehicles sent to GW for the Sleeper used to have IC75s also (not sure whether they have been changed?).

Hope this clarifies
 
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