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How much do buses cost?

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mbonwick

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I believe the bodies are still as bad as ever. I can't comment on the chassis - the vehicles I am familar with are too young yet (2009/10) for issues to become apparent.

There's no arguing that the Volvo B10 series was a great vehicle; though the B10B and then the B10BLE were/are good vehicles, they still aren't as tough as the good old B10M.
 
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MCW

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I believe the bodies are still as bad as ever. I can't comment on the chassis - the vehicles I am familar with are too young yet (2009/10) for issues to become apparent.

There's no arguing that the Volvo B10 series was a great vehicle; though the B10B and then the B10BLE were/are good vehicles, they still aren't as tough as the good old B10M.

still plenty of B10M's in revenue earning service, which has to say something about build quality
 

150222

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*Half Serious Proposal*

So if I wanted to start my own bus company, I rent some land and a porta-cabin for a depot/office, how would I buy some buses? If I got in touch with... say, Arriva North East and ask to bulk-buy some Olympians and DAF's, would that be cheaper than buying from a dealer? Or would much older veichles be a better option (Metrobus/ Leyland Olympians/ B10B's?)
 

302PS

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You'd need to start thinking about new legislations coming in, disability access and the like, everything will have to be low floor very soon

Just a point, the new stagecoach ADL400 Hybrids are £380k a pop
 

starrymarkb

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*Half Serious Proposal*

So if I wanted to start my own bus company, I rent some land and a porta-cabin for a depot/office, how would I buy some buses? If I got in touch with... say, Arriva North East and ask to bulk-buy some Olympians and DAF's, would that be cheaper than buying from a dealer? Or would much older veichles be a better option (Metrobus/ Leyland Olympians/ B10B's?)

If you're just starting out you might be best going to Dawson Rentals or Mistral.

Single Decks used on service work must be low floor from 2015... Deckers have to 2018 (low floor deckers didn't start appearing until a couple of years after singles) The deadlines are based on giving the last of the step entrance models a full working life...
 

150222

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I thought that they just had to be DDA compliant. (E.g Wheelchair lift?)
 

starrymarkb

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I thought that they just had to be DDA compliant. (E.g Wheelchair lift?)

True. But fitting a lift would probably cost the same as a cheap low floor. But if you are starting out as an independent you'll probably be chasing council contracts. These can specify minimum ages and low floor access.

If you want old vehicles preserve them. The public much prefer low floor access for pushchair access etc
 

Ivo

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Try a dealer; Ensign are good shout. Your best bet would be early low-floor models such as Pointer Darts (by which I mean the original Pointer model seen in 'P'-reg Darts and not the more common Pointer II model) and - Heaven forbid - Wright-bodied Lances.

You'd need to start thinking about new legislations coming in, disability access and the like, everything will have to be low floor very soon

As I understand it this is only half true. Non- low-floor vehicles will still be permitted, providing a low-floor alternative of the same mode of transport (i.e. bus in this case) is available. This means you could in theory alternate between low-floor and step-entrance on one route.
 

cainebj

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Try a dealer; Ensign are good shout. Your best bet would be early low-floor models such as Pointer Darts (by which I mean the original Pointer model seen in 'P'-reg Darts and not the more common Pointer II model) and - Heaven forbid - Wright-bodied Lances.



As I understand it this is only half true. Non- low-floor vehicles will still be permitted, providing a low-floor alternative of the same mode of transport (i.e. bus in this case) is available. This means you could in theory alternate between low-floor and step-entrance on one route.

I've done a lot of work recently with DDA legislation, and EVERY bus on a standard public service MUST meet full DDA regulations by 2015 for single deckers under 7.5 tonnes (effectively mini and midi buses), 2016 for single deckers over 7.5 tonnes, 2017 for double deckers and 2020 for coaches. The only way step entrance vehicles can be used is if tickets are pre-purchased from an office on an excursion/private hire/ historic tour etc.
There's a lot more to to DDA regulation than a vehicle being low floor with a wheelchair ramp too. Wheelchair bays have to be of a certain minimum size, deployed ramps have to sit below a certain angle, aisle width through the bus has to be of a minimum width, and the slope up in a bus has to be under a certain angle. Then there's the "silly" little things like all grab rails have to be a bright colour that contrasts from the rest of the bus, stop buttons have to be able to be pushed by a hand instead of just a finger or thumb, front side and rear destination displays must be in place and be operational with DDA font sizes, destination equipment must be illuminated, and then there's other things like if you start a new route you have up to 21 days to get destination equipment prorgrammed or printed for the route, broken destination equipment must be repaired within 21 days from the first fault reported, buses with broken wheelchair ramps aren't supposed to leave the depot until they're fixed, kneeling suspension must be operational, and special driver training has to be provided to ensure the driver is aware of correct safety procedures for safe use of the ramp, safe manouvrability of a wheelchair on board, guiding a blind person to a seat, and asking passengers to move to different seats to allow a disabled person to use seats at the front of a vehicle.

Generally, anything built before the end of 2000 will not meet the full standards, and will not be DDA certified. Operators can convert older vehicles to meet the full DDA standards and have them certified as DDA compliant for use beyond the deadlines, but if you think about it, when the deadlines come into force, non-compliant low floors will be 15-20 years old, past their economic life for public bus services.
 
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Badger

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Anyone interested in preservation should then check out Travel Express in Wolverhampton as all of their buses break the above requirements so will be on the market soon, and they're mostly Dennis Dart Duple Dartlines, which I believe are highly sought after for some reason. (Round here they're just known as "the carpet bus"...)

http://wmbusphotos.com/TravelExpress/fleetlist.html
 

Schnellzug

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Try a dealer; Ensign are good shout. Your best bet would be early low-floor models such as Pointer Darts (by which I mean the original Pointer model seen in 'P'-reg Darts and not the more common Pointer II model) and - Heaven forbid - Wright-bodied Lances.



As I understand it this is only half true. Non- low-floor vehicles will still be permitted, providing a low-floor alternative of the same mode of transport (i.e. bus in this case) is available. This means you could in theory alternate between low-floor and step-entrance on one route.

So they coudl quite happily carry on with what First (for one) do already, and intersperse Olympians with Darts? that is good news.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Anyone interested in preservation should then check out Travel Express in Wolverhampton as all of their buses break the above requirements so will be on the market soon, and they're mostly Dennis Dart Duple Dartlines, which I believe are highly sought after for some reason. (Round here they're just known as "the carpet bus"...)

http://wmbusphotos.com/TravelExpress/fleetlist.html

heavens, that is an historic fleet. Must be the biggest fleet of the very first original Darts still going.
 

Schnellzug

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I strongly suspect that, like all Quango inspired Regulations, those will be watered down, or some loopholes will be inserted. I'm sure there's all sorts of scope for ingenious exploitations of Loopholes there.
 

starrymarkb

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How on earth will they make single decker coaches DDA compliant?

The Plaxton Elite, Panther and Caetano Levante all have DDA compliance as a customer option using Magic Floor Lifts. Some Irizar Centuries and i4s are also compliant with boarding through a separate door and lift. Lifts are viable options for coaches as their limited stop work means they can absorb the time penalty for lift deployment.
 
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