How many trains run per hour between Milton Keynes and London Euston?

[number7]

Run per hour between Milton Keynes and London Euston?

Presumably it is running at maximum capacity?

 

[najaB]

Run per hour between Milton Keynes and London Euston?

Here you go, have a count: Real-time Trains.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

14tph. There is one Fast line path out of Euston at xx33 that AFAIK isn't used off-peak, I couldn't comment on the Slows.

 

[Class 170101]

14tph. There is one Fast line path out of Euston at xx33 that AFAIK isn't used off-peak, I couldn't comment on the Slows.

What about the xx57?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

What about the xx57?

In that case, that one too I knew there was at least one, as it tends to be xx33 that always gets cited for proposed services, however there are probably more.

 

[The Planner]

Nope, 33 and 57 are considered the last ones.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There may be a couple more theoretical paths, but in any practical sense the line is full - any disruption and the backup plan (cancel one Manchester, one Birmingham, Chester as far as Crewe and the Tring stoppers) gets wheeled out all too often.

Hopefully HS2 will relieve things a bit - that's what it's needed for (and is why I believe it should only be built as far as Brum, as that is where it will make a real difference).

 

[Chester1]

There may be a couple more theoretical paths, but in any practical sense the line is full - any disruption and the backup plan (cancel one Manchester, one Birmingham, Chester as far as Crewe and the Tring stoppers) gets wheeled out all too often.

Hopefully HS2 will relieve things a bit - that's what it's needed for (and is why I believe it should only be built as far as Brum, as that is where it will make a real difference).

Its fair to say it will help capacity between Milton Keynes and London by more than "a bit". Also, Birmingham to Crewe is the cheapest and simplest part of the whole project, its business case is sound and the capacity is needed. There are capacity constraints on both east and west sections that will be relieved by HS2.

 

[Starmill]

If you take a look at the fast line trains from Euston in the two hours from 1700:

1700 to Manchester Piccadilly
1703 to Birmingham New Street
1707 to Liverpool Lime Street
1710 to Holyhead
1713 to Birmingham New Street via Northampton
1716 to Northampton (as far as Ledburn)
1720 to Manchester Piccadilly (overtakes the Northampton just before Bletchley)
1723 to Birmingham New Street (drops back a few minutes to stop at Watford Junction)
1730 to Glasgow Central
1733 to Liverpool Lime Street
1740 to Manchester Piccadilly
1743 to Glasgow Central via Birmingham New Street
1746 to Crewe
1749 to Birmingham New Street via Northampton (as far as Ledburn)
1757 to Lancaster

(15)​

1800 to Manchester Piccadilly
1803 to Wolverhampton
1807 to Liverpool Lime Street
1810 to Holyhead
1813 to Birmingham New Street via Northampton
1816 to Birmingham New Street via Northampton (as far as Ledburn)
1820 to Manchester Piccadilly (overtakes the Birmingham just before Bletchley)
1823 to Shrewsbury (drops back a few minutes to stop at Watford Junction)
1830 to Glasgow Central
1833 to Liverpool Lime Street
1840 to Manchester Piccadilly
1843 to Crewe via Birmingham New Street
1849 to Crewe via Northampton
1852 to Birmingham New Street via Northampton (as far as Ledburn)
1857 to Manchester Piccadilly (ThFO)

(15)​

(1900 to Manchester Piccadilly...)

Anyway as you can see it's a wonder that ever works at all.

Incidentally have those xx13 always been fast line all the way to MK? It seems that's done so two trains can run there instead of just one off-peak, with the xx20 overtaking the xx16 before it gets to Milton Keynes Central. It seems something similar happens at 1849, the 1852 goes fast instead of slow... but not to the 1752 because there is a 1746 and no 1846. Is there a reason why there is no 1846? There appears to be no room on the fast line whatsoever except the 7 minutes after the proposed xx33 and the 7 minutes between xx49 and the proposed xx57.

Could a fast line train go at xx54 and overtake the preceding train after Ledburn in the way that the xx20 does? Or is that only possible because the train behind the xx20 has the Watford Junction stop and thereby won't catch up to it so fast?

The 1713, 1716, 1746, 1749, 1813, 1816, 1849 and 1852 are timed for 110 (but some still on a 3 minute headway) what could be gained if they were 125? Probably not much... And also where is all of the freight in this?

I await the expert replies!

...and is why I believe it should only be built as far as Brum, as that is where it will make a real difference).

As I have pointed out before, this is a load of rubbish. What's your Glasgow Express going to do when it gets to Birmingham? It needs to link up with the main line somewhere north of Stafford - oh, what about Crewe...

 

[JonathanH]

If you take a look at the fast line trains from Euston in the two hours from 1700:

1746 to Crewe
1749 to Birmingham New Street via Northampton (as far as Ledburn)
1757 to Lancaster

Could a fast line train go at xx54 and overtake the preceding train after Ledburn in the way that the xx20 does? Or is that only possible because the train behind the xx20 has the Watford Junction stop and thereby won't catch up to it so fast?

The 1713, 1716, 1746, 1749, 1813, 1816, 1849 and 1852 are timed for 110 (but some still on a 3 minute headway) what could be gained if they were 125? Probably not much... And also where is all of the freight in this?

1746 doesn't leave the fast line until Rugby where it stops at 1841 (55 minutes from Euston). 1757 passes Rugby at 1844 and the 1800 passes at 1847. Doesn't look like there is room for a 1754 if the 1746 is a 110mph working and stops at Milton Keynes.

1749 leaves the fast at Ledburn at 1816 (having missed the fast line Watford Junction stop that it has off peak) - the 1757 passes Ledburn at 1819. Again doesn't look like there is room for a 1754.

 

[Starmill]

Of course. So, if we're going to keep a Trent Valley stopping train that is express south of Rugby then it really needs to be capable of 125. Hopefully this is what splitting the franchise can look at achieving.

 

[JonathanH]

Of course. So, if we're going to keep a Trent Valley stopping train that is express south of Rugby then it really needs to be capable of 125. Hopefully this is what splitting the franchise can look at achieving.

But the xx46 path works with a 110mph unit as:
a) the xx49 has to run in order for Watford Junction and Milton Keynes to have a fast connection.
b) the xx57 can't run when the xx49 stops at Watford.
c) the xx46 at 110mph can clear the fast line at Rugby before the xx00 gets there.
d) the xx49 can't go on the slows at Bourne End because the Tring stopper is in the way.

 

[The Planner]

Except anything due to call at Rugby from the fasts followed by something 3 minutes behind it is tight, it has a tendency to knock the one behind it.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

As a very basic rule of thumb, one stop in a 125mph service adds about 5-6 mins to the comparable non-stop schedule, which is why flighting exists!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

How much (as a rule of thumb again ) does superior braking and acceleration and / or door operation alter that figure by though? I would have though a 390 would be superior to a HST in terms of time lost for a station stop at 125?

 

[The Planner]

Pendo stop is normally 4 minutes, 2 min dwell and 1 either side as a rule of thumb.

 

[number7]

Thanks all.