How many operators use Selective Door Opening ?

[Taunton]

London Underground has cut out one or two doors at the rear of trains at a few tunnel stations ever since they dispensed with guards, who used to operate from the last vehicle, while the driving cab stopped just inside the tunnel headwall, with the starting signal further in front. Needing the driver to be platformed see back along the train puts the rear in tunnel. Seems to be automatic, with PA announcements in the rear car.

DLR uniquely stops with both the front two and rear two doors beyond the platform at short stations with 3-car trains.

 

[stadler]

London Underground has cut out one or two doors at the rear of trains at a few tunnel stations ever since they dispensed with guards, who used to operate from the last vehicle, while the driving cab stopped just inside the tunnel headwall, with the starting signal further in front. Needing the driver to be platformed see back along the train puts the rear in tunnel. Seems to be automatic, with PA announcements in the rear car.

DLR uniquely stops with both the front two and rear two doors beyond the platform at short stations with 3-car trains.

It can actually be the front doors or the rear doors or both the front doors and the rear doors depending on the station and platform. It varies a lot throughout the network.

On the S Stock the short platform announcements only play in the carriages with doors that will not open. On the 1995 Stock and DLR Stock the short platform announcements play throughout the entire train.

The example that you mention of the DLR is not unique to them. Bayswater on both platforms also keeps the front 2 doors and rear 2 doors shut just like the DLR stations.

This is the full list of short platforms below by station and platform. It shows which doors cut cut out at each station and each platform at that station.

---

Acton Town - P4 (EB):
• S7 - 1R - rear 1 door cutout
• 1973 - all doors open

Baker Street - P5 (WB):
• S7 - 1F & 3R - front 1 door and rear 3 doors cutout

Baker Street - P6 (EB):
• S7 - 2F & 1R - front 2 doors and rear 1 door cutout

Barbican - P1 (EB):
• S7 - all doors open
• S8 - 2R - rear 2 doors cutout

Barbican - P2 (WB):
• S7 - all doors open
• S8 - 1F & 1R - front 1 door and rear 1 door cutout

Bayswater - P1 (SB):
• S7 - 2F & 2R - front 2 doors and rear 2 doors cutout

Bayswater - P2 (NB):
• S7 - 2F & 2R - front 2 doors and rear 2 doors cutout

Camden Town - P3 (NB):
• 1995 - 1R - rear 1 doors cutout

Charing Cross - P5 (NB):
• 1995 - 1F - front 1 doors cutout

Charing Cross - P6 (SB):
• 1995 - 1R - rear 1 doors cutout

Clapham Common - P2 (SB):
• 1995 - 1R - rear 1 doors cutout

Cutty Sark - P1 (SB):
• DLR - 2F & 2R - front 2 doors and rear 2 doors cutout

Cutty Sark - P2 (NB):
• DLR - 2F & 2R - front 2 doors and rear 2 doors cutout

Ealing Broadway - P7 (EB/WB):
• S7 - 1D - rear 1 door (arr) or front 1 door (dep) cutout

Ealing Common - P1 (NB):
• S7 - 1F - front 1 door cutout
• 1973 - all doors open

Ealing Common - P2 (SB):
• S7 - 2R - rear 2 doors cutout
• 1973 - all doors open

Eastcote - P1 (WB):
• S8 - 1R - rear 1 door cutout

Elverson Road - P1 (SB):
• DLR - 2F & 2R - front 2 doors and rear 2 doors cutout

Elverson Road - P2 (NB):
• DLR - 2F & 2R - front 2 doors and rear 2 doors cutout

Euston - P6 (SB):
• 1995 - 1R - rear 1 doors cutout

Gallions Reach - P1 (NB):
• DLR - 2F & 2R - front 2 doors and rear 2 doors cutout

Gallions Reach - P2 (SB):
• DLR - 2F & 2R - front 2 doors and rear 2 doors cutout

Gloucester Road - P1 (WB):
• S7 - 1F & 1R - front 1 door and rear 1 door cutout

Gloucester Road - P2 (WB):
• S7 - 1F & 1R - front 1 door and rear 1 door cutout

Goldhawk Road - P1 (NB):
• S7 - 1F - front 1 door cutout

Great Portland Street - P1 (WB):
• S7 - all doors open
• S8 - 1R - rear 1 door cutout

Great Portland Street - P2 (EB):
• S7 - all doors open
• S8 - 1R - rear 1 door cutout

Hammersmith - P3 (NB/SB):
• S7 - 1D - rear 1 door (arr) or front 1 door (dep) cutout

Hampstead - P1 (NB):
• 1995 - 1R - rear 1 doors cutout

Harrow On The Hill - P4 (NB):
• S8 - 1R - rear 1 door cutout

Monument - P1 (WB):
• S7 - 1R - rear 1 door cutout

Monument - P2 (EB):
• S7 - 1F - front 1 door cutout

Moorgate - P8 (SB):
• 1995 - 1F - front 1 doors

Notting Hill Gate - P1 (SB):
• S7 - 2F & 2R - front 2 doors and rear 2 doors cutout

Notting Hill Gate - P2 (NB):
• S7 - 1F & 2R - front 1 door and rear 2 doors cutout

Paddington - P1 (SB):
• S7 - 1F & 2R - front 1 door and rear 2 doors cutout

Paddington - P2 (NB):
• S7 - 1F & 2R - front 1 door and rear 2 doors cutout

Parsons Green - P1 (SB):
• S7 - 1R - rear 1 door cutout

Rayners Lane - P2 (EB):
• S8 - 1R - rear 1 door cutout

Royal Albert - P1 (EB):
• DLR - 2F & 2R - front 2 doors and rear 2 doors cutout

Royal Albert - P2 (WB):
• DLR - 2F & 2R - front 2 doors and rear 2 doors cutout

Temple - P1 (WB):
• S7 - 1F - front 1 door cutout

Temple - P2 (EB):
• S7 - 1R - rear 1 door cutout

West Kensington - P2 (EB):
• S7 - 1R - rear 1 door cutout

---

So it is mainly at SSL stations (Circle Line / District Line / Hammersmith & City Line / Metropolitan Line) plus a couple of Northern Line stations and DLR stations. It is indeed all automatic and the ASDO automatically keeps the relevant doors shut without the driver needing to do anything.

 

[Dstock7080]

London Underground has cut out one or two doors at the rear of trains at a few tunnel stations ever since they dispensed with guards, who used to operate from the last vehicle, while the driving cab stopped just inside the tunnel headwall . . . .

Door cut-out was performed by the Guard and Driver at selected stations before OPO. Switches in the cab or on the Guards position could isolate either the end-door or on some Stock the nearest door too.
D Stock was always two doors, C Stock was three doors, CO/CP/R Stock could be two.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

That is rather odd. Chiltern MK3s were specifically fitted with manual SDO at the same time they got converted from slam doors to power doors. They never had any SDO before being converted from slam door to power door. It works in that the guard goes to the rearmost coach that fits on the platform and then presses the "Door Deselect" button when releasing the doors. Same method as some other operators power door MK3s and Turbostars have.

This is a photo of these Chiltern MK3s panel with the DDS button:

View attachment 195062

Funnily it is the same exact panel that the Turbostars have fitted:

View attachment 195063

I wonder why Chiltern are unable to use the feature. It was specifically installed to enable the trains to call at short platforms. I wonder if it is some stupid reason like not wanting to train guards to operate it. It just seems a bit bonkers to not use a feature that the train already has installed.

Didn’t even know 168s had guard panels. Would be nice there was actually someone to use them (I know they do north of Banbury), but it’s nice to know they’re there.
Do 165s have them, and how easy would it be to fit them if not?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if that "door deselect" feature isn't used because it would be too easy to make a "wrong side" error and release all doors, unlike if it was the default to release forward only and you had to press something additional to release all doors?

Does anyone know how this compares to Class 350 Unit Deselect? Is that actively selected, or do you have to actively select NOT to do it?

 

[stadler]

Didn’t even know 168s had guard panels. Would be nice there was actually someone to use them (I know they do north of Banbury), but it’s nice to know they’re there.
Do 165s have them, and how easy would it be to fit them if not?

Yes the 168s have guard panels but the guards are not allowed to use them. This is because the 168s use ten bell despatch and the buzzer does not work until the interlock is achieved which makes ten bell from the saloon impossible. It is possible for the guard to directly close the doors (and open the doors) from the saloon on the 168s but this has never been permitted because they often work coupled to 165s and the 165s have no door close controls (or door open controls) for the guard which is why ten bell is required. Having one policy for the 165 and 165+168 and another policy for the 168 was deemed to be too confusing. It also means that the SDO feature (Door Deselect) on the 168s is unable to be used and they can not call at short platformd even though such a feature exists if the guard was allowed to control the doors.

No the 165s have no saloon guard panels and not even anything in the cab other than the guard buzzer. They could easily be retrofitted as GWR recently retrofitted their 165s and 166s with saloon guard panels about five or six years ago. So it is possible if Chiltern wanted to. But i am not sure if they would think it was worth it especially as they will likely be replaced with new trains within a decade or so.

I wonder if that "door deselect" feature isn't used because it would be too easy to make a "wrong side" error and release all doors, unlike if it was the default to release forward only and you had to press something additional to release all doors?

Does anyone know how this compares to Class 350 Unit Deselect? Is that actively selected, or do you have to actively select NOT to do it?

The "Unit Deselect" on the 350 (and on the 360 and the 185 / 444 / 450 before ASDO was added) is a switch that has to be activated by the guard. On a 350 the guard has to go to the front cab of the 5th coach and activate the UDS switch to open the front 4 coaches only or go to the front cab of the 9th coach and activate the UDS switch to open the front 8 coaches only. They just release the doors normally without doing anything on a platform that accomodates the full length.

The only units on the UK railway network that are defaulted to SDO to release forward doors only are the 172s which require the guard to deactivate the DDS button at every stop with a full length platform. This is the opposite of the 170s which release all doors unless you press the DDS to only release the forward doors. This used to cause a lot of confusion with guards at LM when they had both as they had the same panels but the DDS worked in the oppoaite way.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

Yes the 168s have guard panels but the guards are not allowed to use them. This is because the 168s use ten bell despatch and the buzzer does not work until the interlock is achieved which makes ten bell from the saloon impossible. It is possible for the guard to directly close the doors (and open the doors) from the saloon on the 168s but this has never been permitted because they often work coupled to 165s and the 165s have no door close controls (or door open controls) for the guard which is why ten bell is required. Having one policy for the 165 and 165+168 and another policy for the 168 was deemed to be too confusing. It also means that the SDO feature (Door Deselect) on the 168s is unable to be used and they can not call at short platformd even though such a feature exists if the guard was allowed to control the doors.

No the 165s have no saloon guard panels and not even anything in the cab other than the guard buzzer. They could easily be retrofitted as GWR recently retrofitted their 165s and 166s with saloon guard panels about five or six years ago. So it is possible if Chiltern wanted to. But i am not sure if they would think it was worth it especially as they will likely be replaced with new trains within a decade or so.


The "Unit Deselect" on the 350 (and on the 360 and the 185 / 444 / 450 before ASDO was added) is a switch that has to be activated by the guard. On a 350 the guard has to go to the front cab of the 5th coach and activate the UDS switch to open the front 4 coaches only or go to the front cab of the 9th coach and activate the UDS switch to open the front 8 coaches only. They just release the doors normally without doing anything on a platform that accomodates the full length.

The only units on the UK railway network that are defaulted to SDO to release forward doors only are the 172s which require the guard to deactivate the DDS button at every stop with a full length platform. This is the opposite of the 170s which release all doors unless you press the DDS to only release the forward doors. This used to cause a lot of confusion with guards at LM when they had both as they had the same panels but the DDS worked in the oppoaite way.

Ah I see.

 

[Dr Day]

Bit late to this discussion, but are there any cases of SDO at terminating stations? Or is it something that isn't permitted?

 

[liamf656]

Bit late to this discussion, but are there any cases of SDO at terminating stations? Or is it something that isn't permitted?

Melton Mowbray is front 3(?), and 1M51 is a 5 coach train. It terminates there before going ECS to Etches Park Sidings

 

[Kite159]

Bit late to this discussion, but are there any cases of SDO at terminating stations? Or is it something that isn't permitted?

Alton with a 12 coach 450 (or 10 coach 444) springs to mind.

As does the Sudbury line as a 3 coach 755 doesn't fit at either Sudbury station or the branch platform at Marks Tey. Likewise, Braintree & Southminster when 10 coach 720s head that way during peak times.

 

[britishrail375]

Bit late to this discussion, but are there any cases of SDO at terminating stations? Or is it something that isn't permitted?

London Charing Cross does so on some of the platforms (platforms 5 and 6 I am sure about, platform 4 not as certain).
Platforms 5 and 6 (and possibly 4) can only fit 11 coaches, so 12 coach Electrostars don't release the rearmost door upon arrival.

 

[507 001]

The ASDO on Northern’s 331s is in use whenever a 6 car set is used on the Chat Moss route in particular.

Not that it seems to be very reliable given how often you see the guard turn the ASDO override switches.

The end result is inconsistency. For example a 6 car set on the down at Deansgate, sometimes you can get on at the last door, sometimes you can’t.

 

[AMD]

The last time I checked was that conductors at Northern had an instruction to use the SDO switch on multiple 331s as the ASDO isn't reliable. Curiously for a number of years now you are allowed to let ASDO work on multiple 195s....
Officially at Deansgate (Down) it's only 11 doors release as standards noted that the distance between the train and wall was too small for door 12 to be used.

 

[D365]

The last time I checked was that conductors at Northern had an instruction to use the SDO switch on multiple 331s as the ASDO isn't reliable.

Is this the same or different to the aforementioned ”ASDO override switch”?

 

[AMD]

Is this the same or different to the aforementioned ”ASDO override switch”?

The same, should be known as SDO switch but it overrides the ASDO; such is jargon - try telling people about BILs when we've always called them hazard lights......

 

[ab2109]

Bit late to this discussion, but are there any cases of SDO at terminating stations? Or is it something that isn't permitted?

TPE services that are formed of 2x 185 sets are front 4 (out of 6) coaches at Redcar Central

 

[45Fox]

There was a very rudimentary form of SDO (more a selective door isolation) on 317s when they worked WCML services out of Euston.

The area in the driving vehicle fitted with longitudinal tip-up seats could be used for mail/parcels, this included the adjacent set of doors. The guard would operate an isolation switch in one of the cupboards inside the vehicle, at the non-driving end, and lock the internal sliding door from the remainder of the passenger accommodation in that vehicle.
When the doors were released in a station this end set of doors were inoperative, they could be released by the station staff inserting a key into an external port on the non-driving end of the vehicle, adjacent to the gangway connection to the next vehicle.

A bit of a long-winded and convoluted way of performing, I don't know how long it carried on for but was certainly still in use when I stopped working them in December, 1989.

 

[transportphoto]

Bit late to this discussion, but are there any cases of SDO at terminating stations? Or is it something that isn't permitted?

A 720 in Manningtree bay platform - the rear most door (on arrival) hangs off the end of the platform.

 

[Towers]

There was a very rudimentary form of SDO (more a selective door isolation) on 317s when they worked WCML services out of Euston.

The area in the driving vehicle fitted with longitudinal tip-up seats could be used for mail/parcels, this included the adjacent set of doors. The guard would operate an isolation switch in one of the cupboards inside the vehicle, at the non-driving end, and lock the internal sliding door from the remainder of the passenger accommodation in that vehicle.
When the doors were released in a station this end set of doors were inoperative, they could be released by the station staff inserting a key into an external port on the non-driving end of the vehicle, adjacent to the gangway connection to the next vehicle.

A bit of a long-winded and convoluted way of performing, I don't know how long it carried on for but was certainly still in use when I stopped working them in December, 1989.

Would the Rulebook eventually have precluded that - endmost doors isolated and the whole coach comes out of use, I believe?

 

[45Fox]

Would the Rulebook eventually have precluded that - endmost doors isolated and the whole coach comes out of use, I believe?

When I remembered it I had exactly the same thought.
I believe you're correct.

 

[The exile]

A quick bit of research has Portlethen, Monifieth, Broughty Ferry and Invergowrie. I also think Dalwhinnie but I'm not 100% on that. I don't believe Broughty Ferry can be altered so will that station have fewer services?

As long as 222s facilitate “local door only” (which they surely must do as otherwise the whole process of door release and dispatch will have to change) then they can carry on as now. 4car HSTs open all doors at Broughty Ferry, it seems, but 5 use local door only.

 

[Highlander1]

As long as 222s facilitate “local door only” (which they surely must do as otherwise the whole process of door release and dispatch will have to change) then they can carry on as now. 4car HSTs open all doors at Broughty Ferry, it seems, but 5 use local door only.

I believe the 222 don't have a local door option

 

[Towers]

I believe the 222 don't have a local door option

I would imagine they’re likely the same as a 220/221, a case of the TM keying in to hold that ‘local’ door open during dispatch but no facility to open just that single door?

 

[liamf656]

I would imagine they’re likely the same as a 220/221, a case of the TM keying in to hold that ‘local’ door open during dispatch but no facility to open just that single door?

Correct, although they can open the crew doors while keeping the rest of them locked

 

[Towers]

Correct, although they can open the crew doors while keeping the rest of them locked

That’s interesting; do the 222s have a crew-only bodyside door at one/both ends? None of the Voyagers have that feature, of course.

 

[liamf656]

That’s interesting; do the 222s have a crew-only bodyside door at one/both ends? None of the Voyagers have that feature, of course.

One end where the first class galley is, and again half way down the train at the buffet counter. You can see on photos of 222s which doors are crew only as they are the same colour as the rest of the train (as opposed to the passenger doors which are in distinguishable colours)

 

[Thepinkpig73]

Would the Rulebook eventually have precluded that - endmost doors isolated and the whole coach comes out of use, I believe?

My understanding is that a coach only needs to be locked out of use if the door(s) can’t be opened by the emergency egress.

 

[Towers]

My understanding is that a coach only needs to be locked out of use if the door(s) can’t be opened by the emergency egress.

Indeed - which would almost certainly have been the case on a 317, as the doors would have been physically locked shut when isolated assuming they were the same as other stock of that ilk.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2026 ==

One end where the first class galley is, and again half way down the train at the buffet counter. You can see on photos of 222s which doors are crew only as they are the same colour as the rest of the train (as opposed to the passenger doors which are in distinguishable colours)

Ah, wasn’t aware of the buffet crew door! These have some form of local operation/release then I presume?

 

[liamf656]

Indeed - which would almost certainly have been the case on a 317, as the doors would have been physically locked shut when isolated assuming they were the same as other stock of that ilk.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2026 ==


Ah, wasn’t aware of the buffet crew door! These have some form of local operation/release then I presume?

The usual procedure is that the driver selects the amount of coaches to open, hands over door control to the TM and they press the release button for all doors, but if they are stood at a crew door they can also use their T key to open it specifically if needed, leaving the rest of the doors locked. You see it quite a lot at St Pancras when crew enter/exit the train

 

[DannyMich2018]

Indeed - which would almost certainly have been the case on a 317, as the doors would have been physically locked shut when isolated assuming they were the same as other stock of that ilk.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2026 ==


Ah, wasn’t aware of the buffet crew door! These have some form of local operation/release then I presume?

When I've seen 222s at Leicester, on busy services I've seen the platform staff open the buffer crew door for passenger use presumably to speed up dwell times.