How many multi-TOC advance fares exist?

[MrJeeves]

I recently picked up two Chiltern £9.55 advances from Burgess Hill to Birmingham Moor Street and the return leg.

These tickets seem to suggest both the Thameslink and Chiltern legs are booked services only, and I wasn't aware that these fares existed. I'm used to only one TOC's leg being a booked service, and connections being "whatever you want".

Do any others like this exist that anyone is aware of?

 

[Deerfold]

I recently picked up two Chiltern £9.55 advances from Burgess Hill to Birmingham Moor Street and the return leg.

These tickets seem to suggest both the Thameslink and Chiltern legs are booked services only, and I wasn't aware that these fares existed. I'm used to only one TOC's leg being a booked service, and connections being "whatever you want".

Do any others like this exist that anyone is aware of?

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A lot of Northern services have changed from being suggested to being mandated when used as part of a longer journey as a side effect of Northern offering lots of very short advances on their services.

 

[mangyiscute]

I got a bit confused before with this, because I was of the thinking that if you held say a Reading to Leeds advance, you could use it on any (reasonably timed) train from Reading to London, and similarly on the way back from London to Reading which is very useful as it avoids you from having to wait excessively at Paddington since the tube connection can be done much faster. However, I was told that since the GWR trains are reservable, you have to travel on your specified train on this leg too, so apparently whether a train is reservable determines if your ticket is tied to a train. Unfortunately, i have no advances to hand to double check whether it shows the specific GWR train time on it.

 

[Starmill]

Yes they're very common now across the country, there are too many to name.

For example Manchester to Edinburgh has LNER & Connections, Avanti West Coast & Connections, TransPennine Express & Connections, Avanti West Coast & Northern only, TransPennine Express only and Avanti West Coast only advance tickets.

Sheffield to Reading has CrossCountry Only, CrossCountry & Connections, +LNER & Connections, and +EMR & Connections.

 

[JonathanH]

I'm used to only one TOC's leg being a booked service, and connections being "whatever you want".

In broad terms, if the connection is a reservable train over any part of the route, that is the train you have to travel on, regardless of which is the primary operator on the ticket routeing.

Thameslink have only relatively recently introduced reservable trains.

 

[Starmill]

I got a bit confused before with this, because I was of the thinking that if you held say a Reading to Leeds advance, you could use it on any (reasonably timed) train from Reading to London, and similarly on the way back from London to Reading which is very useful as it avoids you from having to wait excessively at Paddington since the tube connection can be done much faster. However, I was told that since the GWR trains are reservable, you have to travel on your specified train on this leg too, so apparently whether a train is reservable determines if your ticket is tied to a train. Unfortunately, i have no advances to hand to double check whether it shows the specific GWR train time on it.

It is frustrating yes. Unfortunately however, if you're reserved onto a train, you must use it (unless you encounter a disruption to your rail journey which means you no longer can).

 

[MrJeeves]

Interesting! Shows how much I know!

I guess I'll let this be a lesson... I'll end up spending a lot more time than I need between my connections, I suppose.

I do wonder whether I could theoretically remain on board on Thameslink to St Pancras and change there for the Northern Line to Euston. I wouldn't do this in reality, as it would actually be slower, but I think it would be valid.

Either way, I definitely won't miss my connection with this itinerary unless the BML really does go haywire.

 

[danm14]

I do wonder whether I could theoretically remain on board on Thameslink to St Pancras and change there for the Northern Line to Euston. I wouldn't do this in reality, as it would actually be slower, but I think it would be valid.

Yes, you could.

Although given that Chiltern departs from Marylebone, not Euston - the fastest route would probably be the Jubilee Line to Baker Street followed by a walk (but as you'll have plenty of time to kill, staying on board to Farringdon and switching to the Metropolitan/Circle/H&C to Baker Street would probably be the most pleasant).

 

[MrJeeves]

Although given that Chiltern departs from Marylebone, not Euston

God, I'm too used to using Avanti on company expenses!

I am tempted to go Farrington - Paddington on the Purple Train, then Paddington to Marylebone on the tube, actually. Should be a good use of my cross-london transfer.

 

[Deerfold]

God, I'm too used to using Avanti on company expenses!

I am tempted to go Farrington - Paddington on the Purple Train, then Paddington to Marylebone on the tube, actually. Should be a good use of my cross-london transfer.

I'd recommend using Farringdon (Farrington was renamed Farington in 1857 and closed in 1960 - it's near Preston).

 

[MrJeeves]

I'd recommend using Farringdon (Farrington was renamed Farington in 1857 and closed in 1960 - it's near Preston).

I should sleep more.

 

[mangyiscute]

It is frustrating yes. Unfortunately however, if you're reserved onto a train, you must use it (unless you encounter a disruption to your rail journey which means you no longer can).

Can I use say a Newbury service which you cannot reserve a seat on with an advance ticket? If my advance books me onto that? Personally I think the rules are very unclear

 

[JonathanH]

Can I use say a Newbury service which you cannot reserve a seat on with an advance ticket? If my advance books me onto that? Personally I think the rules are very unclear

Paddington to Newbury service? They are reservable trains (on a counted place basis) so if you have a reservation for one on your ticket you must use it.

Advances are issued with the condition that you travel on all booked trains noted on your ticket, indeed technically on the itinerary you booked including non-reservable trains, regardless of whether you have a specific seat or a counted place.

Arguably the rule is very clear - booked trains only - ie the itinerary offered on the booking engine at the point of purchase.

 

[Starmill]

Can I use say a Newbury service which you cannot reserve a seat on with an advance ticket? If my advance books me onto that? Personally I think the rules are very unclear

Unfortunately, as mentioned upthread, the rule is that if you're given a reservation for a service, regardless of if that includes a booked seat or not, it's mandatory that you travel on that service. The only exception to this would apply where disruption occurs to your rail journey meaning you can no longer make the booked train.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Feb 2023 ==

Arguably the rule is very clear - booked trains only - ie the itinerary offered on the booking engine at the point of purchase.

Indeed. Notwithstanding any errors in displayed the ticket type and conditions at the point of purchase it is sadly pretty clear.

There's only latitude where you're travelling on a leg of your journey for which you haven't been given any reservation, or where special permission is granted.

LNER used to have a policy that special permission would be given to customers travelling between Stevenage and London if it were part of a longer journey, for example on a Plymouth to Stevenage Advance they would allow an earlier departure than booked from London to Stevenage and staff would authorise this specifically. I do not know how long that lasted or if it is still in force, and you wouldn't be able to demand it because it is based on goodwill from LNER. Mostly other companies didn't have any specific information for their staff about this, but you would occasionally be granted such special permission, for example, for a journey from Edinburgh to High Wycombe via London Marylebone there's a possibility if you ask nicely that Chiltern staff would endorse your ticket for the next available service to High Wycombe, rather than making you wait.