How long should it take to clear up after an accident?

[SteveT]

Media statement: Bedford train crash – essential travel only as passengers warned to expect disruption for the majority of next week

Rail passengers planning to travel through Bedford next week are being warned by the rail industry to expect disruption to train services until the end of next week (28 June) and to only travel on this route if their journey is essential.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Following an incident on Friday (19 June) involving a collision between two East Midlands Railway (EMR) trains in the Bedford area, in which an EMR driver sadly died and many passengers were injured, the railway is expected to remain closed between Bedford and Luton for the rest of the week.

A complex recovery operation has begun to remove the damaged trains and carriages from the railway before engineers assess any damage and complete necessary repairs. The Overhead Line Equipment – the electrical wires that provide power to the electric trains – must be removed while a temporary access road and concrete foundation is constructed to support the operation of a crane.

Two 110 tonne rail-mounted Kirow Cranes will then lift the trains and carriages from the site before a road-mounted crane moves them onto a low loader – a heavy-duty, specialised trailer designed to carry extremely heavy equipment – to be transported away by road. Following this, engineers will then assess the track and make any repairs before reinstating the overhead lines and completing final safety checks ahead of reopening the railwa

It's not the first time that eyebrows will have been raised at an announcement that it will take at least a week.

Notwithstanding overhead power lines and the nature of modern signalling and telecoms, it does seem a long time. Accidents may be rare today, but is there no place for rail-borne cranes?

Over to you...

 

[Straus]

Because investigations have to be given time, especially when there is a fatality involved.

 

[Deepgreen]

I suspect it isn't the actual clearing up that is time-consuming but the collection of evidence from the scene. Railways are far more complex these days than in the past, so there is far more to check for failure, etc.

 

[ExRes]

It's not the first time that eyebrows will have been raised at an announcement that it will take at least a week.

Notwithstanding overhead power lines and the nature of modern signalling and telecomms, it does seem a long time. Accidents may be rare today but is there no place for rail-borne cranes?

Over to you...

6X99 arrived Elstow at 1258 with two cranes

 

[Archvile]

Same reason most things take longer now.
Internet = greater access to information = people more aware of their rights = more lawyers = more regulations.
Technology also allows us to have the means of investigating more thoroughly than a couple of decades ago.

 

[AlterEgo]

There are rail borne cranes involved at Bedford.

 

[KNN]

It depends on the accident, a week ago everyone was saying how surprised they were with the quick reopening after a bridge strike.

 

[sloaneesq]

If there's a death, it's a crime scene. I'm assuming once the emergency services release the site, it's then an RAIB site. Once they've done their bit then comes the recovery and reinstatement. Once that's done, it's the testing. A week feels quick.

 

[SteveT]

There are rail borne cranes involved at Bedford.

Yes, I've since seen that but the vehicles are still being taken away by road.

 

[ExRes]

It's not the first time that eyebrows will have been raised at an announcement that it will take at least a week.

Notwithstanding overhead power lines and the nature of modern signalling and telecomms, it does seem a long time. Accidents may be rare today but is there no place for rail-borne cranes?

Over to you...

You should read the newly added post #380 on the, currently closed, main thread

 

[SteveT]

How long should it take then?

That's what I'm asking.

It was often done so much more quickly in the past.

 

[sharpley]

According to the BBC the carriages will be craned onto the side of the track where another crane will lift them on to a low loader. A temporary road and concrete hard standing area have to be built

 

[Acathater]

In this case the signalling and warning systems are going to have to be checked cable by cable, every relay, every switch, every bulb, every circuit board. If there's a fault it has to be found. That's a lot of work

 

[SteveT]

You should read the newly added post #380 on the, currently closed, main thread

Thanks but as I said above, I've since seen that.

 

[iamraymond]

That's what I'm asking.

It was often done so much more quickly in the past.

Do you have an examples please?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It was often done so much more quickly in the past.

Are you sure about that? Seems a hazy recollection of a single person isn't really the sort of evidence to go on here. Investigating thoroughly is important if it can help prevent future incidents and if that means the line stays closed for a few days then in the big picture it's a price worth paying.

 

[AlterEgo]

That's what I'm asking.

It was often done so much more quickly in the past.

Can you give an example? Ufton Nervet also resulted in a six day closure for example.

 

[Andrew1395]

Do you have an examples please?

Harrow & Wealdstone in 1952 which I think involved a three train collision, the two slow lines were open at 05:00 the following morning. The DC (Lioness Line) three day after, as the wrecked locomotives had to cleared from the track. The fast lines I think were closed for four days. A temporary footbridge also opened on the fourth day to allow passengers access to the six + bay platforms.

Different world of course 70 years ago. Though being a fully integrated organisation probably did speed up recovery.

 

[flitwickbeds]

Harrow & Wealdstone in 1952 which I think involved a three train collision, the two slow lines were open at 05:00 the following morning. The DC (Lioness Line) three day after, as the wrecked locomotives had to cleared from the track. The fast lines I think were closed for four days. A temporary footbridge also opened on the fourth day to allow passengers access to the six + bay platforms.

Different world of course 70 years ago. Though being a fully integrated organisation probably did speed up recovery.

As did the extremely reduced requirements on health and safety, and investigating what happened so lessons can be properly learnt and changes implemented.

 

[Retorus]

That's what I'm asking.

It was often done so much more quickly in the past.

You've not offered any actual evidence of this beyond your own recollection.

 

[SteveT]

Can you give an example? Ufton Nervet also resulted in a six day closure for example.

Ufton Nervet is relatively recent.

Hither Green 1967 – accident Sunday evening, slow lines back in action Tuesday morning, fast lines Wednesday.

 

[Rail Ranger]

In 1952 the railways were an essential part of the country's economic infrastructure. There would have been a continuous procession of coal trains heading towards London past the site of the Bedford collision. Those days are long gone.

 

[DarloRich]

It's not the first time that eyebrows will have been raised at an announcement that it will take at least a week.

Notwithstanding overhead power lines and the nature of modern signalling and telecomms, it does seem a long time. Accidents may be rare today but is there no place for rail-borne cranes?

Over to you...

Could you expand on this? What is your expectation for service restart and why?

 

[SteveT]

Could you expand on this? What is your expectation for service restart and why?

I've answered this already...

 

[Javelin_55]

Please don't forget that the announcement of the long closure has come 24 hours after the RAIB got on site. It's possible the evidence they've already collected points to multiple complex or conflicting causes.

 

[Acathater]

Harrow & Wealdstone in 1952 which I think involved a three train collision, the two slow lines were open at 05:00 the following morning. The DC (Lioness Line) three day after, as the wrecked locomotives had to cleared from the track. The fast lines I think were closed for four days. A temporary footbridge also opened on the fourth day to allow passengers access to the six + bay platforms.

Different world of course 70 years ago. Though being a fully integrated organisation probably did speed up recovery.

mechanical signals, not electronic
simple steam locomotives, not modern electronic controls
no overhead catenary getting in the way
more available labourers to do the work
fewer health & safety considerations

 

[apinnard]

Yes, I've since seen that but the vehicles are still being taken away by road.

How else are you expecting nine very damaged and in some places likely out of gauge (let alone their height if there even were flatbed wagons to carry them) large metal boxes to be shifted?

 

[Horizon22]

If I recall - from a now retired ex-colleague - after Ladbroke Grove, a reduced service that only went as far as Ealing Broadway was in place for at least a week.

 

[deltic]

There is a clear difference between the time taken to clear fatal road collisions on the motorway network and those on the rail network. National Highways has targets for the former, not aware of any for the latter.

 

[Failed Unit]

In this age I think 1 week is about what is expected. Other ones in the region were about the same. (Potters Bar and Hatfield) which were both complex to tidy up.